Jay Stahlberg got into HVAC in September 2021, working for a one-man shop that installed high-wall ductless units and almost nothing else. Two and a half years later — after a jiu-jitsu shoulder injury forced a couple of weeks off and some hard thinking about a game plan for his life — he started Baystate Energy Services in Plymouth, Massachusetts.
He had no money and no business background. What he had was one vehicle: a Jeep Grand Cherokee, which he traded for a two-seat Dodge ProMaster City work van. He remembers telling his son, "I hate to break it to you, but no more rides for your friends."
Two years later, Baystate has a full pipeline, a showroom walking distance from Plymouth Rock, and a growth story built almost entirely without paid advertising. On this episode of The Heat Pump Podcast, Jay lays out exactly how — and it's the closest thing to a playbook for the first two years of a heat pump business that we've had on the show.
Every new contractor dreads the same homeowner question: "So, how long have you been doing this?" Jay's answer was to make sure it never came up.
He printed out the Mass Save program materials, put them in a binder, kept it next to his bed, and read it night after night until, in his words, it was engraved in his brain. He'd tell the truth if anyone asked how long he'd been in business. Almost nobody asked — because when he walked into a home, there wasn't an inkling in their mind that he was new.
The technology mattered too. Jay told us about homeowners who chose him word-for-word because of the contrast: the other guy was measuring windows with pen and paper, and Jay walked in running a professional load calculation on site. "He seems like he's got to know what he's doing." The key to sales, Jay says, is to be the perceived expert — and perceived expertise is something you can build deliberately, before the years of experience arrive.
Jay started with no money but plenty of hours. So every waking second he wasn't installing, he was marketing: building the website, posting on every platform, connecting with people on LinkedIn. To this day, Baystate has spent almost nothing on Google Ads or paid marketing.
His favorite proof point: a homeowner whose full system install Jay traced back — over dinner in the guy's backyard, after a weekend install in 100-degree heat — to a LinkedIn connection request. The homeowner saw they had a ton of mutual friends, figured those were good people, and assumed Jay had to be a good person too. That job cost Jay nothing to win. Familiarity, he says, is a powerful tool.
Jay's sales philosophy runs opposite to standard training: send the proposal, confirm the homeowner received it, invite questions — then leave it alone.
His reasoning is psychological. The homeowner has ten contractors hounding them, and then there's the one who showed up professional and knowledgeable, turned the proposal around fast, and went quiet. That contractor becomes a mystery they want to retrace: he must be a busy guy if he's not chasing me. And when the homeowner reaches back out, the trust dynamic is already working in your favor. Whether you'd run the same play at scale is a fair question — Jay acknowledges it himself — but as an owner-operator, it's worked.
That's Jay's description of his whole strategy, and the stories back it up. The van's engine failed 60 days in, on the highway to a Maine install — he finished the job at midnight out of a rental pickup and ran the business from that truck for two months. A general contractor acquaintance later handed him a leased truck and a $50,000 personal loan, largely on reputation. An energy assessor rented him a Sprinter van for $100 a month, then refused the money.
Jay's read on all of it: those things showed up when he was heads-down doing the work, not when he was wishing for them. His advice for anyone a year behind him is the same — be prepared to commit every waking hour for the first two years, and don't be upset if you're not thriving right out of the gate.
You can find Jay at BaystateEnergyServices.com.
[00:00] – Introduction
[03:17] – Introducing Jay Stahlberg
[04:17] – Jay’s journey into HVAC and heat pumps
[09:56] – Marketing, branding, and LinkedIn success stories
[15:36] – Why the company is called Baystate Energy Services
[17:58] – Building the business from scratch
[26:32] – Understanding Mass Save and home performance contractors
[28:40] – The vision for the showroom and future growth
[31:12] – The hunger for knowledge and professional development
[35:10] – The next phase: systems, service, and scaling
[39:21] – Advice for new contractors and entrepreneurs
[45:11] – What Jay hopes comes next
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee personal vehicle. At the time, again, I was living just me and my son and full-time single dad, not single, I have girlfriend. At the time I did two, but we were living by ourselves. I have one vehicle trade in my personal vehicle for a small Dodge Pro Master City, one of the small work vans, which I knew was like, this isn't going to carry me through to the end, but it's a starting point. And I remember telling my son, I'm like, "Yeah, I hate to break it to you, but there are no more rides for your
Speaker 2 (00:30):
[00:00:30] Friends." Two years ago, I was scrolling through LinkedIn and saw a post from a guy named Jay Stahlberg and Baystate Energy Services. And I read it and I thought, "I think he could be our kind of customer." And it was bold of me to think that because I think we had 10, maybe 20 customers at the time. I don't even think we were ACA certified. We were tiny, but I took a chance. I called him out of the blue, he answered. I asked him about his business, he asked about mine, we hit it off, and he's been a customer ever since. [00:01:00] So this episode has been a long time coming and I am just delighted to finally have Jay on the pod. When Jay started Baystate Energy Services, he had no money in one vehicle, which was just his personal Jeep, which he traded in pretty quickly for a two-seat work van.
(01:14):
He was a full-time single dad with no business background and he was basically brand new to the trade. Today, Baystate Energy Services is in a completely different position with a full pipeline, a great new showroom in downtown Plymouth, Massachusetts, and Jay's built it all while spending [00:01:30] nothing on advertising. This episode is a playbook for anyone in the very early years of building a heat pump business. You'll get some inspiration from Jay and his commitment. You'll also hear how Jay positioned himself as an expert before he had any track record. You'll hear why he refuses to chase customers and you'll hear what he'd tell a contractor who's a year or two behind him. It's a great episode. Before we get to it, three quick things. All right, first, we just became official partners of [00:02:00] the National Comfort Institute. They are, in my humble opinion, the single best organisation you can be a part of if you want to be a high performance HVAC contractor.
(02:11):
Their high performance HVAC summit is coming up September 1st through 3rd in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee at the Dollywood Heart Song Lodge. We'll be there. And if you want to go, more details are at www.gotosummit.com. That's just www.gotosummit.com. Second, just after that, the US Heat Pump Summit is going to be in Worcester, Massachusetts again. This will be our third year going. We're big fans. If you're building a heat pump focused business, your people will be there. You can use discount code Amply, A-M-P-L-Y, to tell them we sent you and to get a decent discount on your tickets. Go to usheatpumpsummit.com. We'd love to see you at both of those events. And last and very selfishly, if you're enjoying the podcast, please subscribe, give us five stars, or even better, write a one sentence review. We do this podcast because we love it and we learn a tonne and your likes, subscribes, and comments do great things for the show.
(03:09):
Okay. With all that out of the way, let's get onto the episode with Jay Stahlberg. Hi, and welcome to the Heat Pump Podcast. I'm Ed Smith. I'm one of the two co-founders of Ampli. And today I have Jay Stahlberg of Baystate Energy. Jay, thanks for joining.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Long time coming [00:03:30] like we were talking about. So here we are, made it a couple reschedules. Time flies, like we mentioned, two years into the business, a little over a year and a half since we connected and yeah, summer comes too quick. So here we are in March trying to be proactive with this. So we got it done. It's exciting.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
You got it done. Yeah, I mean it's worth Jay, you're one of our oldest customers. I mean, I cold called you out of the blue. Yo answered. We chatted. I would say we struck up a friendship from there [00:04:00] because we were both brand new with businesses that were kind of on parallel paths. And since the early days, I've wanted you on the pod and you've been like, "Well, wait till I get to a year. Wait till I get a little further. I want to talk about where we are when we hit this point." So it's awesome to have you on.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, appreciate it. Yeah, it goes to show LinkedIn works, social media works. I respect the hustle when somebody like you reaches out to me and the timing was meant to be and we can lead into the story from there because I started [00:04:30] the business in February 2024 and a couple months in and we'll take it back a little further. I got into HVAC in September 2021. Thought about this recently, which is not a long time at all. And then started off with a local company friend of mine who all he did was ductless mini splits, that's it. Wall hungs. In the year and a half that I worked for him, we might've done one floor unit and I think that was it actually other than just high wall ductless units. That's it. So that's all we did for [00:05:00] two years. That's all he wanted to do.
(05:03):
That was fine. And that's where I learned the basics of heat pump installation. And then a year and a half later I injured my shoulder in a jujitsu tournament, long story. And at the time, take a couple weeks off to heal up. My arm was messed up, whatever. But realised in that moment I was like, I really got to figure out a better business plan, a better game plan for my life and all that stuff. And so did a lot of thinking and what was my most valuable skillset at that [00:05:30] time while still fresh installing heat pumps or whatever. And while working for my friend/that other contractor, he's very old school guy, one man, one van, all that stuff. There were many scenarios where I got to witness we were losing bids and all the incentive-based stuff that's pushing the heat pump installation realm is he wanted nothing to do with.
(05:51):
So I started really digging into all the mass save stuff and incentives and all these things and I'm reading up on it and I'm like, wow, this is crazy. This rabbit hole goes deep. [00:06:00] There's so many things that are incentivizing this that could make selling this product, installing this product. At the very beginning I was just thinking business, profitable, great. And the more involved I got and the more I learned that there's so much to this industry and every home is a new puzzle that I'm trying to solve. It's a new engineering puzzle and it never ends. And now I've found out two years later, I'm like, why am I even doing this? And I like solving the problems. I like solving the puzzles. It started off as like, let's make money. This looks like a great [00:06:30] industry to get into. Great. And then I'm like, this is way bigger than that.
(06:33):
I mean, we're almost trying... This is a big part in essentially saving the world is how I view it. We've got to solve the energy crisis and it starts with every individual home that there is. So I think that's a big part of it. But start the business, couple months in, what did I know? I don't have a business degree, no business background. I worked all types of other jobs. I was a real estate agent for years, so I had sales skills. My family owns an auto body shop, so hands-on tinkering stuff. I was in the vocational [00:07:00] and I took construction technology and like many of the students I was in that class with, none of us got into carpentry or anything like that. The vocational I went to at Weymouth at the time it was entering, you're like, oh, that's the fun path in high school.
(07:13):
You do les academic classes, you get half the day basically off for your senior year, all that stuff. And one kid, a buddy of mine is a carpenter that I was in carpentry essentially with now. So here we are. I dabbled in the other trades as well, electrical, plumbing. I have friends that do those things. So bought a house, [00:07:30] basically flipped it, learned a lot about homes in general and systems in a home through that. And HVAC in this business kind of brings everything together. My sales pass, every little tinkering and other job I ever had, this kind of all brings it together. And the thing with HVAC, and I spoke with a friend of mine the other day and I speak with people about it all the time, it's like it encompasses there's a plumbing aspect, there's an electrical aspect, high voltage, low voltage, air, everything, gas, there's a little bit of everything in this realm.
(07:57):
And for me personally, I think [00:08:00] it's just the way my mind works. I like to have complex problems to solve constantly just to keep my mind busy. And of all the industries I look at that I could have got into pretty easily, I think this one exceeds all of those and the amount of complexity that needs to be solved, every single house. And you could simplify it and I think many people do, but when I walk into a house, yeah, I'm looking at it. There's a lot of moving pieces to do this right. And I'm grateful for it because it gives me a lot to think about. Going back to the LinkedIn thing, so start the business. I know nothing. I don't know anything about manual [00:08:30] Js. I don't know any of that stuff. And I start the business and start learning about it and I'm like, oh, here I am, pen and paper, going through houses, taking measurements, trying to piece it all together, windows.
(08:40):
I hear about some other softwares, CoolCalc and RightSoft and all these things. I dabble with those. And I'm talking to people and I'm like, which one? They're like, they're all kind of tough to work with or whatever. Here you come, like heaven sent. And I'm like, show me this software. And I'm like, this is great. This is perfect. I'm in. It costs me how much? Okay. Yeah. Well, I know how much time I just [00:09:00] put into pen and paper on every single house I walked into. So that's one aspect of it. I think as business-minded people understand time cost management and opportunity cost and something like that is an absolute no-brainer. So I start using that. Nevermind the sales tool aspect. I have customers, I have stories that I was looking forward to sharing today. I have customers who flat out told me because I walked into their house and I had technology and I was the perceived expert relative to my competitors, they're like, it was a no-brainer.
(09:29):
Word [00:09:30] for word. I have customers that were... Yeah, they're like, "That guy walked in here, he was measuring windows and writing stuff down. You came in here with your fancy software and all this stuff." And he's like, "It seems like he's got to know what he's doing. There's definitely some truth to that. " So yeah, that was great. And then LinkedIn, like I said, my business strategy at the very beginning was, again, I had no money to start this business. So it was no money and I had a lot of time. So I was like, how am I going to do this? And I built out my main focus right from the get - go was build the website, build all the social media platforms. [00:10:00] 21st century, here we are. There is tonnes of free marketing opportunity if you don't have money, but you have time and you could tap into all of that.
(10:09):
And that's what I did. I built out all my stuff, made it look as professional as possible with what I had to work with. And my objective is, and similar when I was in real estate too, and I had just gotten into that. And as a new contractor in any industry, I feel like you always worry about that question or the homeowner being like, "So how long have you been doing this? How long you been in for? [00:10:30] " And it's tough to justify to somebody that you're the expert if you're new to something. So my objective was I need to display that I've been in this for longer than I really have. If the questioning comes up, I'm going to tell the truth, but I want to be... I studied. I printed off all the mass saved stuff, everything. I put it in a binder, slept with it next to my bed and read it night after night until it was just engraved in my brain.
(10:53):
So when I walk into a house and I talk to somebody, it's not even an inkling in their mind that I'm new to this. So that's where [00:11:00] it started. And the LinkedIn thing is funny because you found me on there and I got a great story from the contractor side on that. I did a project, this was June 2024, so the business was February. I think I connected with you in April or May of 2024 or something like that. Something
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
It really hit me. Customer reached out, replaced his system. He had just standard AC only. I think it was 40 years old. Didn't work for five years. Went by. I always forget to ask people where they found me or how [00:11:30] they found us or any of that stuff. And he needed a system replaced and I educated him on his options and all the mass save stuff and good. I'm like, listen, you can use the heat pump or not, but you're going to get everything an AC can do and more. And for a smaller net cost once the incentives are factored in and for 0% interest for 84 months. So factor that in as well. And even just on the AC side alone, it's going to be less costly to run that system in the summertime period. So it's hard to say no to something like that.
(11:56):
Anyway, this guy had family coming in 4th of July [00:12:00] week, 2024. So we had gone back and forth a little bit and he was hesitant to pull the trigger, whatever. I don't chase customers. That's one of my business philosophies where modern sales training and strategies is just hound them, hound them, hound him. I send the proposal, I confirm that you received it. I send an email, text follow-up, whatever. Well, if I know you have it, then if you have questions, fee free to reach out and I leave it there and I've been extremely successful with that model. And I think there's a psychological [00:12:30] aspect to it where you got 10 contractors that are chasing you, hounding you nonstop. And then there was this one guy who he came into my house, he was super respectful, professional, knowledgeable,
(12:41):
Educating, all of these things. He was fast turnaround on the proposal or all this stuff. And then I just haven't heard from him since. It's like you're a mystery in their mind that they want to re-chase. They're like, where is he? He must be a busy guy if he's not chasing me like everyone else. And whether I am or I'm not, that's the strategy. But it develops a good dynamic as well. Rule out [00:13:00] the fact like, okay, I'm not chasing them. I don't need them even if I do. But if they're reaching out to you again, there's something unspoken that they trust you, whatever it is. So that's been my strategy all along. And I know a lot of bigger companies as you scale, that might change. I'm the owner, founder, so it's a little bit different. I care more, stuff like that. But a LinkedIn thing.
(13:21):
So 4th of July week, he had a bunch of family coming in and he's like, "Oh, I need this AC system replaced. We're not going to have AC here, whatever." We get down to the Y, we're booking out three, four [00:13:30] weeks from deposits or whatever. And now it's almost mid-June. He's like, "Hey, yeah, yeah, I want to move forward with that. Cool. When can you get me on? " And I'm like, "July 7th or something like that. " And I put him on the books and he reached out a couple days later. He's like, "Hey, can I talk to you about... " He's like, "Do you think he can squeeze us in before?" And I'm like, "Here we go. You can't save everybody." But I was like, "You know what? " I got the whole crew together. I'm like, "We'll do it this weekend. A Saturday and a Sunday." Got everyone together, coordinated everything.
(13:55):
Of course, the homeowner was happy. Go over there, instal a system Saturday, Sunday. [00:14:00] Sunday night, I'm sitting there vacing it down and it's a hundred degrees out. I'm just sitting in his yard and they're being very hospitable and all that. Every time I walk through the kitchen, the wife is like, "Hey, food, drinks, everything, whatever you need." And he's like, "Did I ever tell you how I found you? Because it didn't even cross my mind up to this point." He's like, "I think you added me on LinkedIn." And he's like, "And I saw that we had a tonne of mutual friends." He's like, "And I knew those were good people. " He's like, "So I assumed you had to be a good person." I just started laughing. I'm like, "So it works?" Because I didn't really even know any of these people. It was just simply the fact that the familiarity [00:14:30] and the assumption on his end that we're somehow connected and whatever.
(14:33):
And lucky for him, not a bad guy so he lucked out. But it's like needless to say, that costs me no money to do. It's just simply go on there. I still do it to this day. I want familiarity as a powerful tool and just trying to, again, the showroom I just showed you where we're at, it's the branding, all that stuff. This day we've spent very little money on marketing, no Google ads, none of that stuff. And I've been very successful. So the LinkedIn thing is powerful. [00:15:00] It works both ways. I recognised and respected you for reaching out to me with something that was actually valuable. And I've made many connections through there. You've connected me with people through there as well that I still talk to this day that if it wasn't simply for that. So it ties back to the guy I used to work for too.
(15:18):
Again, a lot of these old school contractors that have no desire to adapt to modern marketing stuff. And now it's moving so fast thinking about the AI and all that stuff, where it's headed in - home scanning [00:15:30] systems. If you don't adapt or you're not at the forefront of that, you're going to be struggling for sure. We're just in a less than desirable position when it comes to running a business. It
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Was an awesome overview. There's a lot to unpack there. Let me go back to when you started the business. You didn't call it... You mentioned you were working for this other contractor, you saw it was a business opportunity. You saw he wasn't capitalising all the resources that were available to him. So you started it with Adrian, this is a good business opportunity, [00:16:00] but you called it Baystate Energy Services. You didn't call it Baystate heat pumps.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So tell me about, that suggests to me you were already thinking about something bigger than just heat pumps. So what was in your head when you named it that?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Much bigger. So for starters, I did a tonne of research and I looked at other companies in the realm. I looked at HPC companies, I looked at heat pump companies, HVAC companies, and my true long-term vision, [00:16:30] I mean, energy is at the centre of everything in everybody's life every single day. It rules the world essentially. So to put that in the name gives me the opportunity to grow and have cast a wide net over many different things that everything doesn't always go exactly according to plan, but I felt like this name would give me a broad range of things that I could go in many different directions for it to always align with whatever we were potentially going to do. Whether that was HVAC, whether that was heat pumps, [00:17:00] whether that was becoming an HPC, whether that was insulation, whether it was selling electricity, solar, whatever it was.
(17:07):
I knew the energy realm was my focus because thinking long-term, I think about companies like the utility companies. I thought about their names and I'm like, who knows? 50 years from now we could own the grid for all I know, whatever it is. But I looked into, I did a lot of research and then there were certain names that I wanted to rule out specifically because there are some companies out there that choose to say heat pumps or mini splits or whatever [00:17:30] it is and a lot of success. But yeah, I just felt like really picking a name like that would kind of trap us in a corner and I didn't want to brand that way to... If anything was to change in the industry from move away from whatever that name was tied to, I think it could be catastrophic for some people. So I'd put a lot of time and thought into this.
(17:48):
And then Baystate, of course, or Massachusetts. Energy of course encompasses everything that we're doing and more and want to do. And then services, we're providing services. So here we are.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
[00:18:00] Tell me about the growth. All right, so it's just you in the beginning. Tell me about the growth in your company, people, whatever you want to comment on. The showroom would be great. Tell me how you guys have evolved over the last two years.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah. So again, crazy. Yeah, started off just me. I mean, talk about a wild ride. Again, I think back and it's just crazy to think about. And we spoke about it briefly. The things that have kind of fallen into place for me, it's almost manifested to this point, but [00:18:30] started in the beginning, just me. And I have a business partner. He supports me in basically everything I do, whatever I decide to do, best partner I could ask for basically. So me and him, but mostly me in the field handling the backend stuff. He's played more of a supportive role for whatever I need to run this and follow through with my vision and all that stuff. But boots on the ground in the field, me running all the backend stuff, doing the instals. And then the employees have came and went. I have one employee with me right now, the one who had just walked [00:19:00] in briefly ago.
(19:01):
He's our longest standing employee, been with us since November 2024. But yeah, in the beginning, let's think back. Yeah, we wanted to touch on the personal story and stuff like that. I mean, in the very beginning, again, started no money. I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee personal vehicle. At the time, again, I was living just me and my son and full-time single dad, not single, I have a girlfriend. At the time I did two, but we were living by ourselves. I have one vehicle, trade in my personal vehicle for a small Dodge Pro Master [00:19:30] City, one of the small work vans, which I knew was like, this isn't going to carry me through to the end, but it's a starting point. And I remember telling my son, I'm like, "Yeah, I hate to break it to you, but there are no more rides for your friends.
(19:42):
We got a two-seater here and all that stuff." So sacrifices were made, buy this van. There was a lot of moving pieces to that because starting a new business, I know nothing about business credit, bank accounts, all these things. I'm like, "Wait, we started a business. Can't we go to the bank and get a company vehicle loan?" They're like, "No, we need three months. [00:20:00] We need six months. We need to see some revenue, all this stuff, whatever." And I'm like, "Well, that makes it difficult to start a business and everything." Sure does. If your personal credit is not pristine and you didn't have whatever before that, again, difficult. So get this van in about 60 days after getting this van, this was 4th of July week in the trenches, driving up to Maine to instal a system. I think it was literally July 2nd, 2024.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
You drove all the way up to Maine to instal a system?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Well, actually, that's a good point you bring up because we're licenced in Maine as well. And we're [00:20:30] likely, once we nail down the system that we're utilising here for how to run this business, we're going to multiply it. We're going to do the same thing up in Maine. So yeah, we have some connections up there and through some network, somebody who didn't know anybody up there that owned a vacation home and they were from masses. Who do you know? It's these guys. And of course I'm not saying no to anything at that point in time, first six months of the business. And we're driving up to Maine on July 2nd. Meanwhile, I'm like, it's been the first four months absolute grind. I didn't probably [00:21:00] take a single day off at all, 16-hour days, whatever it is. I'm like, "All right, got to go get this done because finally I'm going to go enjoy the 3rd of July with my family in Plymouth and fireworks and all that stuff." Driving up July 2nd, van starts shaking.
(21:13):
I'm like, "Oh, what is this? Get through the toll booth, pull over, pop the hood, motor's rattling. I'm not a car guy. I don't know that much about it. I find a local mechanic, bring it there." One of the pistons or whatever is misfiring and had to get it towed back to the dealership I bought it from [00:21:30] and had to get a rental pickup truck in real time in Salisbury Enterprise, transfer all the tools from the van into this rental pickup truck, couldn't put the ladders on it, drive up to Maine, get to Maine at about four o'clock, finish that job at about midnight, drive back down and had to stop in Salisbury to take the ladder off the van because AAA or whoever we called wouldn't tow the van to the dealership that we bought it from because the ladder was on it. They show up, they're like, "Oh, we won't tow it with a ladder on it.
(21:59):
" And nobody [00:22:00] would
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Take
Speaker 1 (22:00):
It off. So midnight, I leave Maine, got the job done, stop in Salisbury, take that ladder off, strap it to this rental pickup truck. I got back to Plymouth at five in the morning, fell asleep at a rest stop, whatever it is. Anyway, needed a new motor in this van that was 60 days old, which was my only vehicle, my personal vehicle. I'm trying to start a business, traded whatever. And I'm just like, "You can't even make this stuff up." And for two months, for the summer of 2024, I ran the business out of a rental [00:22:30] pickup truck for two months and the tools in the back. Yeah, thinking back, strapping ladders to a pickup truck with no ladder racks on it, as people can imagine. You see those guys driving down the highway and you're like, "Something' wrong with that guy."
Speaker 2 (22:43):
You get several lanes over away from
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Them. Yeah. Yeah, you have plenty. Yeah, for whatever reason, nobody wants to be around you. So anyway, two months go by and then yeah, typical tough to find good help, tough to afford good help, all these things so early on. Again, no [00:23:00] investor backing me. So every penny that was made was just to keep things alive, keep things rolling, get things off the ground, repay early debt, stuff like that, normal new business stuff. And a friend of mine who's a general contractor and his family general contractor reached out to me, had just sold his house and he knew about my struggles. I would talk to him briefly here and there, and he happened to have a pickup truck and money to lend me. He's like, "Listen, anytime I ever tried to start a business," [00:23:30] he's like, "My biggest struggle was carrying the payroll of new employees consistently.
(23:36):
And I'm still struggling with this today too." Again, it was different when it's just one employee. You can wake up some days and you're like, "Huh, money in the bank. I could take the day off. I could take the week off." But when you have multiple employees, you're like, "Oh, now I have to... Oh, I forgot. Every morning I have to wake up. Every day I got to make sure that these guys have ways to produce money for the company, or we're just digging a hole, or the ship is just going to sink." So talking to [00:24:00] my buddy about that and he's like, "Yeah, well, that was always my struggle." He's like, "Now here I am." He's in a position to help someone else. He is like, "I don't know why I wouldn't do it. " So he's like, "This truck I have that he was leasing," he's like, "I'm a general contractor." He's like, "If I can't throw a sheet of plywood in the back of it, it's useless to me.
(24:15):
" He's like, "If you want it, you can have it. Take over the lease." I'm like, "Sounds good to me. No money down. Just start making payments or whatever. Great. Awesome." And then on top of that, he had just sold his house and he was moving to Georgia and he's like, "If you can come up with some [00:24:30] loan plan to make me more money interest than whatever my money is making me in the bank account," he's like, "I'll give you anything up to $100,000, whatever." And I'm like, "All right, sounds good. How's 25?" I was like, "25,000, pay you back in six months, 5,000 a month, and then 2,500 interest on the six months basically." Or whatever that equates to a year, 20% a year, I guess it would come to. And he's like, "Are you sure 25 is enough?" He's like, "How about 50?" I'm like, "Sounds good to me.
(25:00):
[00:25:00] Writes me a personal check." Mind you, I had never hung out with this guy a day in my life, done a little bit of business. We came from the same hometown, knew some people, but I didn't even know what to make of it because he didn't even know about the business struggles, the real business struggle, the financial situation, none of that stuff. He just saw he knew whatever and was like, "Yeah, sounds good." And I walk away from that with a truck and $50,000 personal business loan and I didn't even know what to make of it. So here we are, things are starting to... Now I have a consistent vehicle. [00:25:30] Again, pickup truck's still difficult to run an HVAC business out of. Again, you need ladders, especially you're doing heat pumps and line height and lines that you need ladders, you need all this stuff, but it was a step in the right direction.
(25:42):
Meanwhile, the van that we had is still, we're fighting with the dealership about engine replacement, which again, learning new things, commercial vehicles Lemon Law doesn't apply to. Didn't know that. So we're like, "Oh, 60 days? New motor." And they're like, "Unfortunately, yeah, no, Lemon Law doesn't apply." And so we got into a big back and forth with them. [00:26:00] Eventually they gave us a good deal on a vehicle replacement. And then oddly enough, this January two months ago, I got rear-ended in that van and now it's totaled and now it's gone forever. I almost wanted to keep it just as a, put it in the showroom. Maybe I'll find it at a junkyard one day and bring it in and display it in the showroom on a little rotisserie or something like that. So that was that. Now I got the truck, now we got the little van back, new motor in it.
(26:26):
Cool. Starting to gain some traction. And then strategically, [00:26:30] I reached out to all the HPCs on the MassSave list as well. I realised that majority of people getting energy assessments done.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
For folks not in Massachusetts, explain what an HPC is.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Oh, home performance contractor. So partner of MassSave that is eligible to do home energy assessments to help people qualify for incentives related to MassSave, stuff like that. So every home, every MassSave project that we do that has a rebate or 0% financing heat loan tied to it, they had [00:27:00] to have an energy assessment done and/or insulation and weatherization and air sealing done to bring their home up to a Mass Saves energy code standard, stuff like that. So those people, I mean, you have rising clear result, but then you have the list of HPCs aside from that. And those people are really looking for strategic partnerships and things. And knowing that these energy assessments that are getting done, a lot of these people, every single heat pump instal that we were doing either most likely needed an energy assessment done. [00:27:30] So I had to find somebody that could do those for us in a timely manner.
(27:34):
And when I didn't completely understand how the process worked, I didn't realise that one specific customer that wasn't going to utilise a heat loan still needed to get an energy assessment, something along those lines. So in a scramble, I started calling down the HPC list to see who could get it done as quick as possible. And I spoke with this company, Colt Home Services. And I'm talking to them, they're like, "How did you find us?" And I'm like, "Oh, I was just calling down [00:28:00] a list." And you could tell they were caught off guard and they're like, "Oh, this kid's whatever." And
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Developed
Speaker 1 (28:04):
A good relationship with them, good relationship with the energy assessor. So a couple months go by and one of the energy assessors I was doing a lot of work with, he sends me a picture of a van, a sprinter van, and he's like, "Oh, what do you think of this? " I'm like, "That's exactly what I need right now. Perfect. Because the little van, again, we can't even fit dual fan condensers. It's not ideal. We're getting there, but it's not optimal yet." I'm like, "That's what I need." And he goes, "It's yours." He's like, "I'll rent it to you for a hundred bucks a month." I'm like, [00:28:30] "Sounds good to me. " And get the van, all that stuff. And then I'm like, "Yeah, send me your Venmo." And he's like, "I don't want your money. I just want to help you grow the business, all this stuff." And again, so many things have happened since the business began that just fell into place.
(28:43):
There's so much more. The showroom, for instance, that's a -
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, tell me about that.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
So a couple companies, a couple heat pump installers have showrooms. And so that was always, again, also part of the plan. I saw a big value in it. Some people don't. I think it's my plans for this showroom is, like I described to you, it's going [00:29:00] to be the hub for homeowners, businesses, whoever for a home energy education hub basically is what it's going to be. So big plans once it's up and running. My problem right now is the pipeline's full and I don't spend any money on marketing. And getting this up and running is only going to create more business that I'm struggling to keep up with, which has been the ultimate struggle from the start of the business is just the processes, the internal processes, finding good help, employees, managing the workflow efficiently, [00:29:30] all those things. So I would probably do myself an injustice to do a grand opening for this right now and invite the world down.
(29:36):
And these people are like, "Oh, this is great." They know what they're doing. And it's like, "Yeah, I'm booking out four months. Sorry. I don't think people would appreciate that. " Anywho,
(29:45):
November 2024, Plymouth, Mass, tonnes of pilgrims, Plymouth Rock, walking distance. All the parades go right by where the showroom is now located. I'm walking distance to Plymouth Rock. All the parades go by here. So [00:30:00] I'm standing literally across the street, hands in my pocket, whistling, watching the Thanksgiving day parade directly across from me for lease right on the corner here. Windows, exposure, cars. And I'm just like, "That's it. That's the one. I need to get that. " So called the leasing company December 2024, signed the lease, all that stuff. And I've worked with manufacturers to get equipment and stuff in here. And here we are. I mean, now it's over a year later and it's not fully open and operational yet, but again, I've dealt with this struggle [00:30:30] of, okay, if I open this, if I grand opening and open these doors and start inviting people in, I might cause more problems for myself than that.
(30:38):
So the business strategy, whether I wanted it to be or not, has been a lot of biting off more than I could chew and then figuring out how to chew it. That's basically been what this is. It's been one leap forward, two steps back, one step forward, two steps forward, two steps constantly back and forth. But slowly but surely it's all coming together. And every day that passes, I'm learning [00:31:00] more stuff. I'm learning more how to run a business. I'm learning more about everything that we're doing. I'm getting more involved. I go to any trainings and conferences and anything that I can go to just absorb knowledge is what I try to do without being detrimental to the business's productivity. But that's been a huge part too.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Well, first of all, the biting off more than you can chew and then figuring out how to chew it I think resonates with basically every entrepreneur listening to this. Yeah. But one of the things I know about you is you're just hungry for knowledge. When I saw [00:31:30] you at the heat pump summit in Worcester, you were one of the few people who bought the additional access pass because you were just like, whatever's going to get me the most knowledge out of this thing, I want to be there. So how do you decide what to go to weigh it based on, look, if you come out of the field, you're costing money. So how do you think about what to go to learn from and what to skip?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
So yeah, that internal battle, almost every [00:32:00] time I get an opportunity, I have my supply house reps, they send me things and some things I come across, I get recommended things from other people. But again, I can't just go to classes and conferences every day or someone's got to run the business. And every time I was really uncertain and then I decided to go to something, I never regretted it. And the business didn't die. So I'm like, okay, yeah, this is okay. So every time I spent the money, you look at some of these things cost money and you're like, I don't know, especially where we're at. And then every [00:32:30] time that I do it, I don't regret it. I come away with something or a connection or better brand awareness. I always see it as a win-win. As long as the business is not going to die from me leaving for one day or whatever it is, I'm like, it's probably going to be a net positive experience for me in the business.
(32:49):
And it has been. So more connections, more knowledge, all these things is going to set me further and further apart from the competition and put me in a realm with the people that I want to be with and around to [00:33:00] learn more. I want people to know us, know me, take us seriously, look past the fact that I'm a newer company, but taking this very seriously and have a humongous hunger and thirst for knowledge like you described. So yeah, it bothers me that I can't learn faster. As a human being, it bothers me because there's so much. And every time I turn or look or listen to your podcast and somebody else on, they're talking about things I haven't even heard of yet and I'm like, crap, I got to find out what that is because he knows what that is. And it's obviously [00:33:30] important.
(33:30):
It obviously matters. And trying to solving this home energy issue, there's so many moving parts and every home is different that there's endless things to know and figure out. So yeah, the thirst and hunger for knowledge. And I'm not afraid to take risk. That's a huge, huge part of it. So again, I sit there and I go, huh, should I go to this class, this conference, this, meet somebody? And then I go and I'm like, I'm so glad I did that. So yeah, the heat pump conference thing, that was funny. I don't even know how many people signed up for the VIP pass or whatever, [00:34:00] but I don't think it was many. And they were like, yeah, there's not enough. And I do things like that and then I discover, I'm like, well, I really am trying harder than a lot of people if this is what's happening right now when I'm doing things like that.
(34:12):
So that particular conference surprisingly didn't have a lot of... My supply house reps didn't mention it to me or anything. It was, I forget, it's popped up on LinkedIn or something like that. And then it was actually Alex Meany. I was taking his rights off class for him a couple days or a week prior to that and I knew he [00:34:30] was going to be speaking there. So I asked him about it and he gave me the whole spiel on who to go listen to and all that stuff. And that got me excited about it that ended up going. But yeah, a lot of times it's just I look at it sometimes when I'm hesitant or I'm a little worried or I think it's risky, maybe in a sick way it's like, yeah, I want to do that. That's your
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Sign?
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, exactly. That's my sign. Yeah, go ahead. If I'm comfortable, no, I don't want to do it. Complacency and comfort, I'm like, that's not my realm. I don't operate well there. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
That's an amazing [00:35:00] motto.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Yeah, I've been super impressed with how you just go after it and learning and really want to do things at an exceptional level and always pushing for that. So awesome update on how the business evolved to where you are now. What do you want the next six to 12 months to look like? Where do you go next?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Well, I have this long-term. I'm kind of working on a pretty strategic timeline and then there's a gap in between there that I haven't really dialled into completely. There's a lot of things [00:35:30] with the business right now, little basic things that we need to focus on to get things running smoothly. And I think this year, safe to say I had bigger plans. I'm always shoot for the stars and land on the moon. Same thing, bite off more than I could. Very much so my strategy. But then I land somewhere in the middle and I'm like, all right, well this year, I think about how much we've done revenue, the growth and all that stuff. And I look and I research other companies, I talk to other owners, I talk to people that have sold their companies. I like to see their [00:36:00] growth to get a gauge on what's realistic and what's not and stuff like that.
(36:03):
So I set my expectations for myself super, super high and tend to land somewhere in the middle. Exceptional, but not whatever, crazy extreme, whatever it might be. But next six to 12 months between now and the end of the year, I just want to really dial in systematically and effiently internal processes for the business. So for instance, we don't have a service division really. No actually at all, we don't have a service division. I forget who I [00:36:30] listened to one of your podcasts. You had another contractor on it. Maybe they were in Colorado or something, I think it was, where they were talking about how they don't have a service division. And the pipeline has just been full with instals that I haven't really had a time to build a service division. But long-term goal for the business, I want to be positioned in a place to sell, at least have the opportunity to sell.
(36:52):
And at that point in time, depending on my personal business life opportunities, whatever it might be, we'll determine whether I keep the business or keep moving, [00:37:00] pushing forward with it or whatever. But between now and then this year when I started it off, building my service division, maintenance contracts, selling accessories, stuff like that. I want the business to look healthy in the eyes of private equity as soon as possible, just so if the time ever comes where it makes sense, I want to be there as soon as possible that I can pull that trigger and potentially sell the company if it makes sense. So getting the business a healthy balanced revenue and then the systems in place. We're onboarding with ServiceTitan [00:37:30] right now, which I've had mixed reviews from many people that are like, "Oh, you're too small and it's too soon for you to do it.
(37:36):
" Then I got other people like, dude, just go for it. All roads lead there. Just do it. It's going to be a painful, long process, but just do it. So I've been doing everything archaically, Microsoft Word proposals, all this stuff. And meanwhile, my competitors pushed a couple buttons and they'd send in a proposal on site. So I'm trying to, again, internal systems processes, all those things just to get ironed out of this year. I want to kick off or end this [00:38:00] year where we're just really running a simple, small or moderate sized company, healthy profit margins, all those stuff, and then scale it, multiply it, grow it from there. So just really one instal van, one service vehicle, one service guy, optimise the systems for those two people, those two divisions, whatever it is, the backend operation. Optimise that stuff on a very small scale and then think about multiplying.
(38:26):
So up until this point, bite off more than I can chew and then figure out how to chew it. I don't [00:38:30] want to do that forever. I want to really get a strategy in place and start setting things and executing them. So I'm getting some advice that I've received is get a coach. Again, me, no business degree, never ran a business. This is my baby. I don't want to let go of it. It's hard for me to do certain things. But one of the recurring pieces of advice I've gotten from high-end people, people that have sold, they're like, "Get a coach." And then finding a good coach is a whole nother thing. I don't want to bunk up with the wrong person, someone who's not compatible.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
All right, Jay, that was awesome. [00:39:00] You're in a spot, a lot of our audiences, which is like young company, tonnes of ambition. So for folks who are getting into it maybe a year behind you, about the same stage, two-parter, what advice do you have for them and what resources would you recommend? You've got this thirst for knowledge. Is there anything that's been particularly useful? Training, a podcast, a book, whatever. So yeah, what advice do you have and what resources?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Be prepared to commit [00:39:30] every waking hour for the first two years, depending on how ambitious you are. Like me, I'm very ambitious and competitive and all these things, but no matter where you are, it's no secret. Hard work is what the majority of what gets this done and leads to success and stuff like that. And they talk about it all the time. They make the jokes and the memes and all that stuff about, "Oh, I want to work for myself." And they all say, first two years is expect to make no money and this and [00:40:00] that. And drill that into your head. Don't be upset if you're not thriving right out the gate, especially if you're starting it like I did from basically the ground up. And again, I was blessed and blessed and blessed along the way. But some people start these businesses and they have maybe money to start it up.
(40:17):
They have a little bit more time. I was in an urgent situation with no money to back me, so I had to get really back to the basics. And I think that would be a good piece of advice. We started this talking about is [00:40:30] right from the get - go, modern era, build your platforms, build your presence online. And every waking second that I wasn't physically working, I was marketing on social media, interacting, TikTok, YouTube, Nextdoor app, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, build the website, pending networking things until I started getting work and the work started filling up my time more than I could market. And kind of been the same strategy since then, free time, [00:41:00] marketing. And to this day, yeah, I pride myself on being able to grow the business to this point without having to spend... I don't think I spent any money on Google Ads or Google sponsored shit, any of that stuff.
(41:11):
Google guaranteed, none of that, which almost everybody I talk to, these classes I attend, coaches, they always mention that and bring that up. And I'm like, "Well, what do you do if you've made it this far without that and it's working? Continue to do so. " But endless hard work. In the beginning, I'd say the first six months was literally [00:41:30] sun up to sundown every single day, seven days a week. And depending on where you're starting at, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. But resources, again, a lot of it kind of came to me. O, like you on LinkedIn, there's softwares. Software's like without a doubt, not trying to sales pitch here, but without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
When running a business, just like we talk about how do I decide what conferences to go to, time cost management, opportunity costs, stuff like that. If something can save you time, hours and it costs a couple [00:42:00] hundred bucks a month, figure out what your time is worth. Which is you can figure that out different ways, but your revenue, your profit, divided into the hours you're working a week, put some number on that and then say to yourself, okay, if I buy this, is it going to save me X amount of hours a month? My time is worth X per hour. Thing's paying for itself. No-brainer. So the problem is there's so many softwares out. There's so many things and they're all coming at you from different angles and everybody's trying to sell you marketing tools and this and that and all that stuff. So trying to navigate that realm of [00:42:30] what to pick and what not to pick is a little bit more difficult.
(42:32):
But getting good softwares to save yourself time and help present yourself as an expert, that's a big piece of advice that I heard somewhere is that the key to sales is to be the perceived expert basically. That's how you develop that dynamic, that position between you and customers where they're going to come to you because you've established yourself in your area as the expert. That's what I'm going for here. And I went to ACA New England's annual conference [00:43:00] last week for the first time. I'm signed up with them. I'm signed up with ACA, going to get into mixed groups and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Oh, nice.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Trying to think what else I'm involved with, but I had been part of some networking groups too, but the networking groups with other businesses, different businesses, they wanted to meet at strange, just inconvenient times. And the thing with those groups, because they do a lot of marketing to try and pull people into those. And I just think that if you're there, you're not necessarily getting business because you're [00:43:30] good at what you do. You're getting business because you're in some group where everybody is maybe struggling to get business organically and they need to resort to something like that. So I think if you can achieve it, similar to what we have done, is if you can keep your pipeline full through organically generated business, that's the best thing that you could possibly do. And then go from there. And then when I want to grow and scale, spend the money on the marketing, keep the pipeline full, keep the calls coming in, all this stuff.
(43:56):
There's all formulas and stuff for that. But yeah, the ACA [00:44:00] groups, I haven't gotten too involved with them yet, but heard from many different people. That's usually what happens. I start to talk to people that have no skin in the game, no connection to each other
(44:10):
That start to say the same thing as if, "Oh yeah, have you been to this? Oh, this is great. That's great." And some things I'm very impulsive and act quickly on. And other things I take a lot of time when it's a really big decision and there's a lot of different options there to decide between and they all require a big commitment. I take a little more time there. But tying [00:44:30] back to advice, yeah, not to sound cliche, but hard work, hardest work you'll ever do. Nevermind hard work in general, but HVAC, I say to people, I had a buddy of mine call me, he wants to get his son into it, but you're experiencing the hottest of the hots, the coldest of the colds, the wettest of the wets, the dirtiest air quality that could possibly be. You might be
Speaker 3 (44:51):
On
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Roofs some days, you're up on ladders, you're near power lines, you're in high voltage, all these. So nevermind all that, but this industry is not for [00:45:00] the week at all. Definitely
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Not.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
So if you see a hyper successful HVAC heat pump, whatever in this realm, just know that more than likely they've earned it. They've absolutely earned it. So I hope that kind of answers it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Awesome. Awesome answer. And last question I've never asked, but we've started to hear that folks that are on the podcast, they get outreach from some people who listened and were intrigued. Who would you want to hear from? What could you use from the audience? If anyone's listening, it's like, "Oh, I could help Jay." What kind of help would you want to hear from?
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Who [00:45:30] would I want to hear from?
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Directly personally or just generally?
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, what could you use? What would be the next version of the truck? When you got that truck for a hundred bucks a month, what would be the next thing that if someone pinged you on LinkedIn like, "I got this, I can help."
Speaker 1 (45:47):
It just fell into my lap. I believe in myself a lot. I tend to think that if I have a lot of good ideas and I'm willing to put in endless whatever it takes to get it done. It's funny, in my search [00:46:00] for coaching, somebody had a little poll on their thing trying to, it was like a test you got to take or something like that. And it's like, "Oh, how much are you willing to spend? How much time are you willing to commit?" Stuff like that. And I'm like, "Whatever it takes, literally whatever it takes." So having built this business the way I did, again, with the exception of my buddy who gave me that loan further in, but starting it with pretty much nothing. I was talking to my employees about this yesterday. If you do have financial backing [00:46:30] and you know what you're doing, you could grow at a rate, you could achieve that long-term goal.
(46:36):
Like me, for instance, there's a specific number and a specific amount of time that I want to get to a specific place valuation-wise, stuff like that. And to do it with having to make money in the business to fund these plans and build these systems versus you had some magical investor genie come along that knows how to run a business and is like, "Here you go. " Yeah, I would say [00:47:00] that would probably be the best thing that could fall in my lap tomorrow. I'd be like somebody who's already done what I'm trying to do and maybe wants to get back into it or something like that. And they're like, "Yeah, I want to help this guy and I can see he's maybe a younger version of him or something like that. " So yeah, that's really all I could think of.
(47:21):
This is the crazy thing. A lot of these things have manifested for me, but I'm not asking for it. It's almost like I need this, I want this. And then I start working really hard and then it's like, [00:47:30] boop, there it is. I'm like, oh, it really is a strange thing. There's been moments, ups and downs, emotional rollercoaster, the business, the stresses. There's days where I don't want to get out of bed. There's days where I'm excited, we're on track, whatever. I can deal with anything thrown at me. But it was anytime I dialled in and I was just super focused on the business, dialled in, that's when these things would just start coming to me. I'd almost pray for them when I was down in the dumps. But then when I got back to the [00:48:00] grind and accepted it's not coming, it's not how it works, you need to just grind, then these things would just come to me.
(48:06):
Whether it was maybe there was moments where the pipeline started to dry up and then customers from months ago would be like, "Hey, just circling back, we want to do that system now. We want to do that. " Such strange things have happened since I started the business. And my focus now versus earlier in my life again, I'm 33. I lived through my 20s like most 20-year-olds, not entirely focused on priorities. But since I started the business, [00:48:30] again, I don't drink or I don't go out and socialise. It's business and family. That's pretty much all it is. And since that became the main focus of my life, things have just fallen into place. So never been a super religious guy, none of that stuff, but there's something that comes along with whether it's placebo effect or not, when you're dialled in, really focused on doing the right thing and working your hardest, as cliche as it sounds, things seem to work out pretty well.
(48:56):
So that can tie into the advice that what I give to newer [00:49:00] contractors and stuff.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
I can't imagine a better place to end the episode.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
It's great.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Jay, thank you so much for joining us on the Heat Pop Podcast.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
Thanks for listening to the Heat Pump Podcast. It is a production of Amply Energy and just a reminder that the opinions voice were those of our guests or us, depending on who was talking. If you like what you've heard and haven't subscribed, please subscribe in your favorite podcast platform. We'd love to hear from you, so feel free to reach out! You can reach us once again at hello@amply.energy. No .com just energy.