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45 minute read
Half of HVAC contractors in the United States don't do load calculations. And of the half that do, a significant chunk aren't doing them right.
That's the starting point for this conversation with Chris Morin, founder of HVAC Pro Blog, ACCA system design instructor, and one of the most respected voices in heat pump best practices in the Northeast. Chris has spent the last 15+ years training contractors, consulting for utility programs, and — unusually — training building inspectors. That dual perspective gives him a clarity that few people in this industry have.
This episode is a call to action. Not a flashy one. Just a practical, well-reasoned case for doing things right — and why it's not just good building science, but good business.
The Load Calc Is Your Map
Chris tells a story from Marine Corps combat training. Before a nighttime land navigation exercise, he told his instructor he already knew how to use a compass and didn't need the briefing. After a round of pushups, the instructor delivered a line Chris has never forgotten: "The time to have the map is before you enter the woods."
That's Manual J. It's the map for everything that follows — equipment selection, duct design, terminal placement. Skip it, and every downstream decision is a guess. Do it right, and you can trust the system you're selling.
Chris puts it bluntly: contractors who don't do load calcs think heat pumps can't be a sole source of heat. But when you run an aggressive Manual J, you typically find that the house needs about half the capacity of whatever's currently installed. The existing 60,000 or 80,000 BTU furnace was oversized from the start — especially oil systems, where small nozzle sizes get avoided because they clog.
The math changes everything. Not just the equipment selection, but the contractor's own confidence in what they're recommending.
"They Didn't Call You"
The most common defense for skipping load calcs is: "I never get callbacks."
Chris's response is one of the sharpest reframes we've heard on this podcast. The reason they didn't call you back isn't that the system worked — it's that they called someone else to fix it. The homeowner is uncomfortable. The system failed. You just don't know about it.
And when you flip the metric — from "no callbacks" to "maintenance customer for life" — the whole business model changes. The contractor who does load calcs, pulls permits, and documents the design doesn't just avoid callbacks. They build recurring revenue. They get the spring and fall tune-ups. They get the referral to the neighbor.
Building Inspectors Are Not Your Enemy
Chris is unusual in the HVAC training world because he works both sides of the building inspector dynamic. He trains contractors on system design and trains building inspectors on what to look for.
His origin story here is instructive. A contractor had permits getting denied in a Massachusetts town. Other companies simply refused to work there. Chris went in, met the inspector, reviewed the load calcs — and the inspector was right. Square footage was off. Rounding errors had cascaded. The system sizing didn't match reality.
Chris told the contractor: do what the inspector is asking. Do an aggressive, accurate load calc. Because now every other contractor has left town, and you have zero competition. That contractor took the advice, built a relationship with the inspector, and effectively owned that market.
The lesson applies everywhere: code enforcement is coming, and the contractors who are already compliant will be in the strongest position when it arrives.
What About the Other 98% of the Year?
One of the most important technical points Chris makes is about the trap of oversizing for peak conditions. Manual J sizes systems to 99% design temperatures — meaning you're technically undersized for 1% of the year. Contractors fixate on that 1% and oversize to cover it.
But what happens during the other 98%? Short cycling. Dead compressors. High electric bills. And in humid climates, serious comfort problems because the system can't run long enough to dehumidify.
The common rebuttal — "it modulates, it ramps down" — doesn't hold up. Chris has seen this movie before. ECM motors were supposed to be the silver bullet for bad ductwork. They weren't. Inverter-driven ductless systems are not the silver bullet for oversizing. There's no substitute for doing the load calc and understanding what happens under mild conditions.
Key Takeaways
- Half of contractors aren't doing load calcs — and a significant share of the half that do aren't doing them accurately. An aggressive Manual J is the foundation for everything.
- "No callbacks" is a dangerous metric. The real measure of success is a maintenance customer who calls you back every season — and refers you to their neighbors.
- Building inspectors aren't the enemy. The contractors who build relationships with them and meet code requirements end up with less competition and higher margins.
- Oversizing for the coldest 1% of the year creates problems during the other 98%. Variable speed technology helps, but it doesn't fix bad design.
- System design isn't an overhead cost — it's a service you charge for that separates your proposal from the low bidder's guess.
Timestamps:
[00:00] – Episode Teaser
[02:26] – Meet Chris Morin: Marine Vet to HVAC Pro
[07:25] – Lessons from Utility Programs: Good vs. Bad Contractors
[16:13] – Why Most Contractors Are Failing at Load Calcs
[22:17] – The Danger of “No Callback = Success”
[25:04] – Ductless Oversizing: A Growing Problem
[28:57] – Manual D and the Realities of Duct Design
[38:41] – Behind the Code: Working With Building Inspectors
[47:06] – Contractor vs. Inspector: Building a Municipal Monopoly
[50:38] – Design = Profit: Turning Standards into Sales
[53:34] – Free Resources & Chris’s Masterclass
Connect with Chris:
Transcript:
00:00:00.000 — 00:00:46.800
If you do a load calculation and you're correct or aggressive with it, then you'll trust a heat pump will heat the house in a cold climate. I feel like that's the number one thing that contractors don't do. So therefore they think a heat pump can't be a sole source of heat. And what we have to remind them is a BTU is a BTU right. It doesn't matter if it's burned. But if you're burning wood in a fireplace, a certain number of BTUs that goes into the space and the rest goes outside. Same thing with a heat pump. There's a certain number of BTUs that come into the space. Fortunately, you're not wasting a lot. It's 3 to 400% efficient most of the year. But I feel like if you do an aggressive load calc, you realize you don't need an 80 or 60,000 BTU furnace because that's what's in there. I think you'll find you probably need half of that easily.
00:00:50.880 — 00:03:01.200
Hey everyone, we've got an awesome episode today for you with Chris Morin. If you're from New England, you probably know Chris because he's one of the most respected voices in heat pumps in the region. And if you're not from the northeast, then here's what you should know. He's the founder of the HVAC Pro blog. He’s an ACCA system design instructor. He's a longtime former Mitsubishi employee, and he also trains building inspectors on heat pump installation and commissioning best practices. That gives him a perspective that few people in the industry. If you have ever wanted to know what's on the mind of a building inspector. This episode will give you that insight. And one of the things I love about this episode is that Chris doesn't sugarcoat anything. He makes a really compelling, practical case for why doing things the right way load caps, permits, code compliance, why? That isn't just good building science. It's good business. It’s how you build trust, charge what you're worth and grow. And two quick plugs before we get into it. First, if this episode resonates, we'll put together a free trust checklist that walks you through what it looks like to compete on trust rather than on price. That link is in the show notes. And second, if you want to go deeper in person with like minded contractors, the Building Performance Association's annual conference is April 13th through 16 in Columbus, Ohio. Use discount code NHPC-HPP. That info is on the show notes so you can get the best available rate for first time attendees. We'll be there. We'd love to see you in person. All right. With that, let's get on to the episode.
Hi, and welcome to the Heat Pump podcast. I'm Ed Smith and I'm Eric Fitz. We are co-founders of Amply Energy. Today we're thrilled to have Chris Morin here. He's a marine Corps veteran, an ACCA system design instructor, and an extremely respected voice in heat pump best practices in New England, which is doing a lot of inverter driven heat pumps. We're going to cover a lot. So Chris, welcome to the Heat Pump podcast.
Thanks, Ed and Eric, I really appreciate the opportunity to talk with everybody, and I'm really looking forward to the conversation today. That's two. So I gave a little bit of your background, but tell us more about carrying tools at 16 two tours in Iraq. Thank you for your service. No worries. Just tell us about the journey from 16 to now. Like coaching building inspectors. How did the kid from Lancaster get to where you are right now? It was a long time ago. So yeah, actually, my parents made me go to tech school. I wasn't allowed to go to the local high school that like they did. Looking back, was probably one of the best things they ever did for me, right? I got my first co-op job at 16 when I was eligible junior year, and I took a job carrying tools at the local mechanical company, which was great because I got to see a lot of different things working for a small mechanical company. So one day I would be putting up plumbing hangers for, let's say, sprinkler heads in a commercial building. And the next day I'd be cleaning out a boiler in a basement. So it was a really wide exposure to the industry early on. But then a lot of my friends were going to college and unfortunately were not in a financial situation to afford that.
My parents were divorced and stuff, so it was one of those things. And my family never went to college, so we didn't know how it worked back then. And I went into the Marines to actually get away from HVAC. So I looked around and I was like, man, all these guys are busted up, bad knees complaining. And I thought, geez, I'd go in and I could get my hours to be an electrician.
That was the idea, right? So in the Marine Corps, just like any other federal employment, those hours are transferable. So I went to boot camp, and I don't know if you guys have ever seen Full Metal Jacket in the movie. They put everybody in the stands and they read off your name and what your role is. That's a real thing.
During combat training in North Carolina after full camp now. So I'm sitting in the stands and they read off my name and they say, 1161 Refrigeration mechanic. And I was like, nah, nah, that's not right. I'm supposed to be an electrician. And they said, no. We guaranteed the utilities field, which includes.
And then he rattles off all these things and told me it was the needs of the Marine Corps son. And they shipped me off to refrigeration mechanic training, which, ironically, was the same book I used in high school. So I did really well. Recertified my EPA 608. Right? Very simple. I think I was I got a couple of meritorious promotions, most likely because of that.
Right. And obviously this was all before September 11th. So once September 11th, it things changed drastically in the Marines. And I was there for the invasion in 2003, in Iraq, ironically attached to a British first Armored Division. And then I went back for Fallujah and the first elections before I actually got out of the Marines.
But when I got out, I went back to the same company I used to work for. So when I got my co-op job. So I ended up. I was a service tech. I became service manager when I finished my degree at night, so I did finish. By the way he went in the Marine Corps. It took me seven years in high school, but I got my business degree.
I was working as a service manager when I met my wife, and we went to start a family. I was working a lot of hours, small mechanical company, a lot of overtime, a lot of nights, and I thought, how am I going to do this young family and not burn out? And I actually went to a class for the local utility rebate program, and hopefully he's not listening to this, but I thought I could do it better than this guy.
Right? So I applied when I had a job opening and I ended up getting the job. I worked with them for about six and a half years before I got my first taste in real sales. I went to Mitsubishi Electric for ten years, and then about a year and a half ago, just over a year ago, I actually started doing this full time working for myself.
I was doing a lot of nights and weekends. It was a passion project, that's what. Hence the name HVAC Pro Blog started as a written blog and then turned into video and trainings. Ran out of vacation days while I was at Mitsubishi offering trainings. So yeah, it's a huge opportunity in the northeast. Like you were saying, I think a lot of people do know me for my heat pump background given where I used to work, but of course I actually became an epic instructor through Acca prior to working at Mitsubishi.
So there's a lot of people that know me from different roles while I was in different companies in Massachusetts. So long winded story. I had to say, no matter how much you try to get at HVAC, it sucks you right back in. Podcasts are for the long winded version of a story. Chris. So this is great. Nice. Chris I want to go back.
Actually, you mentioned this big chunk of time where you worked for the Massachusetts Utility Rebate programs. Yeah, before we were taping, you mentioned that during that time, you kind of you got exposed to some of the best HVAC contractors and the worst in New England. You did. Can you just talk a bit like about like what you saw and honestly, like what separated the best from the worst?
There's a long list, right? So I mean, I would like to think the number one thing is doing system design, right. That's obviously why I have a passion for it. But back then this was 15 to 18 years ago, and I worked for a program called Cool Smart back then. We ran it in Massachusetts, in Rhode Island. This is what the utilities had prior to Mass Safe and the Rhode Island Heating and Cooling program.
So we used to run cool smart, and it was very early on. We would do quality installation inspections, teach contractors how to use digital tools and superheat and sub cooling, measuring airflow. And then we started offering downsizing incentives. And we realized, well, if they're going to downsize, we'd need to teach them how to do load calques.
And that's when I found out everybody was doing what my father used to do. Right. So it was pretty rough out there. And I think those guys that really separated themselves back then were the ones that embraced system design and helped them sleep at night, where everything is no longer a guess. There's actual engineering and math behind it, right?
So that's the first step. But now these days, I think the ones that adopt technology faster are the ones that are able to save a lot of time and build value in the home. Right. So not to do a shameless plug here for amply, but tools like amply. Right? So if you're able to do a load calculation faster, you're more likely to do it accurate and you're building value with the customer while you're doing it compared to whoever's not using something like that in the home, right?
Just square feet per ton or some of the other crazy rules we have out there. So yeah, I think those are the key things. And unfortunately we go through some cycles in our trade when it comes to booms and busts, right? So in the last since I think I got my first job in 96. So it's been 30 years. That's ridiculous.
Time flies when you look back. It always seems like in ten year increments. Right. So ten years ago wasn't that long ago anymore. But over the last 30 years, I've seen the cycle a couple times. Go when it comes to refrigerant changes, code enforcements, housing booms or whatever caused a boom in the industry.
And then, of course, what happens afterwards, right. So we find there's a lot of really good technicians and installers that do their job great, that are not probably good businesspeople, but think if I can offer a really good service, the rest of it will take care of itself. And then they find out the hard way.
That's not the case. You still need to be good at marketing and sales and business, right? So I think the ones that recognize that early on are very successful in finding somebody that's an expert, things that they are not an expert at or the things they don't like to do. That's probably the first hire they always have, right?
I don't like sales. So a higher salesperson or I don't like doing service or whatever the situation is. So it's an easy hire that produces income and they can scale their company. So yeah, I think system design and not being the bottleneck in your own business is probably the two things that separate the best and the worst across New England, for sure.
Those both resonate deeply with us given the nature of our software, and Eric and I are always worried about being the bottleneck simply and then like, how do you afford to, like, do that, you know, hire that next person and what should it be? So that resonates a bunch. And it's also something we talk with our customers about.
And on that I just I know exactly what you mean. I'm the bottleneck of my own company now. Right? So I hired a salesperson a few weeks ago and I have a client success manager. Net. Thanks. Yeah, it's a big leap, especially when it's overhead. Right? That's a tough thing. If they're not generating income, then it's a really hard thing to trust yourself in order to know that you're going to be able to make payroll and other things.
Once you do it, though, you realize, oh my gosh, I should have done this a year ago or whatever, right? So I highly recommend make sure you talk to your accountant first, but then make that first hire. So awesome. So sounds like the leap you made going out on business on your own. Working out? Well, yeah, it has been great, I think.
Well, first off, for my own personal sanity and my family, it's been awesome. And the support I got early on from a few programs and distributors and contractors I knew was overwhelming. So I don't want to be cheesy and tear up here, but it really meant a lot that people followed through when they told me they would support me if I did it myself.
So it really helped early on with cash flow and making sure that this venture is going to happen. So yeah, it was a big leap. I was at a pretty large corporation for ten years. I had really good benefits, really good 401, and I don't want anybody to think anything negative here because I would have stayed there forever.
I just didn't like what I did every day. It was me and my role. And my wife noticed a difference when I was taking vacation days, teaching classes, I'd come home a different person compared to traveling and spending overnights and flying to Buffalo and back in the same day. I live in Massachusetts. Not ideal for the right person at a different point in their family and stuff.
It's probably a great gig, especially after being there that long. But unfortunately, you realize as you continue to grow in a corporation, there's more and more travel and more and more headaches that go with it. Right. And I got to a point where I thought, man, I could I could do what I really love to do and make a good living.
So if I can make that living, helping other people, it's so rewarding. Just congrats on everything you've done. And it's it resonates a lot with me. And it's scary to make that leap and to go after what you love and be able to believe and know that it's going to work out financially, but it's going to take some hard work and some scary days.
Some hard days. Fantastic to hear that you've gotten so much incredible support and that you're it's all coming together right now for you. That's awesome. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, my wife has to remind me. She said, I thought you said you weren't going to work or be as be gone as much. And because if I'm here and I'm on my computer or I'm in my office, I'm really not here.
So I wanted to play more golf last summer. I couldn't do it. I couldn't stop myself from from planning and hiring and all those different things I wanted to do. Right. So I did get my handicap down to a ten, but when I was in high school, it was lower than that. So I'm following the cycle of the business with my handicap.
So and I'm realizing in my intro and in your story of kind of where you got today, we didn't really say, like, what is your business today? Oh yeah. Just tell us more about it. Yeah. So it really boils down to I do system design and quality installation training, and I offer consulting for businesses and coaching for contractors.
Right. So a big part of my business, I would say at least 60% of it is in person and virtual training. So it tends to focus on system design, but it's not exclusive to that. I think a lot of people find me now because of the masterclass I offer. It's a four week virtual masterclass. We go through all the different Aqa manuals that pertain to residential contracting.
Z r S d and then I threw in a couple other little bits on manual t and other things manual H in order to make it make sense residentially, especially if you're doing heat pumps. So because of that, I actually do a lot of consulting and program work with Mass Clean Energy Center. So I'm fortunate. Tomorrow I'm going to be on a a speaker panel form.
I know this will release at a later date, so you won't be able to catch that. You might be able to go back and see it on my social media or something. But right now, Massachusetts has 12 community colleges that are just starting up HVAC programs. So I, I get to connect them with distributors and manufacturers in order to then get contractors in the door to hire kids once they're ready.
So there's a long list of things They're looking for me to do that. They kind of rolled into my program in order to make sure that I'm pretty busy with them. So that's one example. I also consulting on the new New England Accelerator heat pump program. It's four different coalition states, so I'm a consultant for that.
Plus, I get to coach some really good contractors that are local. It's really nice to to help them with their business and help them grow. I think there's a lot of people that if you don't ask for help, you tend to learn the hard way. And I've already done that. I've learned that. Or if I didn't, I saw somebody else when they came to me asking what everybody else is doing over the last 15 years.
So I feel like I have a chance of making sure that, like we were talking about earlier, that guy that started his own business doesn't fail in two years because he doesn't know how to do pricing or create a maintenance program or whatever it is. That's awesome. Thank you for that. Yeah. No worries. I appreciate that.
The opportunity for a shameless plug there. We would love to get shameless plug.
That's so Chris, you've you've written like, at least in your own experience, roughly half of contractors are not doing an actual load calculation. There are folks out there who think, oh, I've been doing this for for 20 years. I just know what the house needs just from looking at it. Why are they wrong?
Why does that not work? Well, that's a loaded question, right? So yeah, it doesn't work for a multitude of reasons. It may have worked 20 years ago. When they use a rule of thumb for a particular construction on a certain house that faces a certain direction, and they got lucky, and then they just held on to that rule of thumb.
Right. And they didn't adjust it for stuff. But I think to go back to your original point, half of the contractors across the United States aren't doing load calques. That's actually an assistant did a study. So I think it's worse than that. I think the 50% that are doing it aren't necessarily doing them right.
So there's a percentage that I don't get me wrong, the guys that get the training, that know what they're looking at, that. Do a detailed aggressive load calc. They're just few and far between, unless it's for new construction, because they have all those details on a set of plans. So I feel like for the ones that want to learn, I have a pretty finite audience, right?
There's a percentage of the 50% that already do it right. I'm looking for the ones that want to do a load calc that aren't doing it right. Right. So there's a lot of people in that, in that percentage there. It's just not the majority of the industry. So the majority of the industry doesn't know me or or hasn't found me.
And they may have seen a YouTube video or something, and then they still realize I don't even know where to start. And I feel like my training is probably needed before they go and find a software, because if you don't know what to put into the software, it's just a very expensive calculator that doesn't give you the right answer.
So I think knowing site survey and building materials and that sort of thing for manual J is the missing gap in most HVAC contractors knowledge in the past, because they don't do that sort of training unless they're required to. Right. Totally. Yeah. This is the old garbage in, garbage out problem. And if you don't know that basic building science or the simple ways to verify those most crucial assumptions, it doesn't matter what software you're using, if you're putting in bad assumptions, you get bad results.
Yeah. The same goes for your when you're calculating your sales commission or whatever, right? You might get a drastically different number if you don't put the right inputs in same. You can translate that over to any aspect of manual JS, right. All of it is is engineered math. Yeah. And it's like, why should we care?
Why is it so important particularly for heat pumps to get that load calculation done right. Like what are the impacts of it going wrong. Yeah yeah. Number one, I think if you do a load calculation and you're correct or aggressive with it, then you'll trust the heat pump will heat the house in a cold climate.
I feel like that's the number one thing that contractors don't do. So therefore they think a heat pump can't be a sole source of heat. And what we have to remind them is a BTU is a BTU right. It doesn't matter if it's burned. And I look down at my fireplace. You can't see it off camera here, but if you're burning wood in a fireplace, a certain number of BTUs that goes into the space and the rest goes outside.
Same thing with a heat pump. There's a certain number of BTUs that come into the space. Fortunately, you're not wasting a lot. It's 3 to 400% efficient most of the year. But I feel like if you do an aggressive load calc, you realize you don't need an 80 or 60,000 BTU furnace because that's what's in there. I think you'll find you probably need half of that easily, and particularly when it comes to oil systems, I feel like a lot of oil systems are oversize because the nozzles, they get really small and they get clogged.
So people don't put in nozzles. For oil burners that are less than 60,000 BTUs, house might need half of that. So heat pump would be better. and certainly be more efficient if you were to compare apples to apples there. Totally. And you mentioned this word doing an aggressive load calculation a couple of times.
This this comes right from the manual J protocol itself. It says be aggressive when they say it or when you say what does that mean to be aggressive with your load calculation. Yeah. So not to start teaching the four hour class I do on that. But being aggressive is making sure you put in as much details as you can identify without rounding up.
Right. So I feel like there's a lot of rounding and echo will attest to this. There's so much rounding in manual J that when I was trained to be an epic instructor, I was fortunate to be trained by Hank Rakowski, who wrote the manuals, and Hank said the original. Yeah, yeah. So Hank was a great guy, and it was just so long ago last time I saw him.
And he said that when they test these softwares, you have to round every device. Decimal points can't go on forever. So you round every window and every door and floor and ceiling. And all this rounding creates a situation where if you do the most aggressive load calc, all of their software that's aka approved is already 20% larger than it should be.
And then you're allowed to oversize a certain percentage with manual s with actual performance. So if you don't do an aggressive load calc, you're setting yourself up for this crazy cascade of over sizing that creates actual comfort problems afterwards. I feel like a great example of aggressive load calc is if you're going to get the window materials right, that's great for registration, but you also have to include the interior shades and exterior shading if there's any sort of overhang.
Right. And what's in the foreground. Right. And sometimes those things will increase the load instead of decrease it. So by doing an aggressive load calc you're actually going to be more accurate. But it's going to help you sleep at night. That's what I always tell contractors like, you're not going to be guessing if this is going to heat and cool home.
Can you say more about that? Sleeping at night? Because I think that we're focusing the same 50% of the market, right? 50% is doing load. Collector wants to do them better. When I talk to folks who don't do load calques, I mean, what I hear is I know how to size a house by walking into it. And then when you push them, it's like, how do you go?
Like, I didn't get callbacks. Yeah, right. Like that's the metric. So yeah, that's a pretty bad. I feel like I don't have a good line for telling someone like, no, but that's wrong because. So what do you say I usually tell those guys is that's because they didn't call you. They're uncomfortable in the system.
Failed. Yeah. You didn't get a callback because they didn't call you. They called somebody else to come and fix it. Right. And I think in most of New England particularly, we're catching up with codes and enforcement has been very poor. So doing a load calc is the first Requirement when you file a building permit, whether it's for an existing home or a new home, and you put in a whole home heating and cooling system.
So some of it's licensed and there's really good structure to that. But most of New England is not the case. It's almost the Wild West in most cities and towns across New England. There's a handful that have caught on and know what the ERC and the ICC code requirements are. And there's licensing in some states, but it's just really enforced.
And that requires the the contractor to actually pull a permit. So if they don't pull a permit, there's no inspection and there's no requirement for a manual J and a manual S equipment selection report. So I feel like if you do the process right and you do the right thing by the homeowner and for your business to protect yourself by filing that permit, it's going to help you sleep better at night.
You're not going to wonder. And the metric is no longer I didn't get a call back. The metric is I have a maintenance customer for life. They called me back every year, every spring, every fall. Right. So I feel like the ones that don't have callbacks are also the ones that aren't doing that service or growing their business.
I like that answer. I love that answer. And it's not only are they. They call me back as a customer. Are they referring you to their friends and neighbors? Like that's where the magic happens for your business. Well, not only do you have an actual referral program and are you paying them to refer you? Right.
So there are a lot of incentives that are given to homeowners to provide referrals. But if you just have a large customer base that's talking great about you and you're not having to pay for that. I mean, that goes a long way, and then you're probably doing system design correctly if that's the case. By the way, just to circle back on that, that question about not needing to do a load calc because they feel like they have that knowledge or whatever, I honestly believe that it's gotten worse with Ductless systems because they think it ramps down.
It modulates. I was gonna this is my next question. It's like, you know someone we know decently well. Basically, it's like a 12 K goes in every room because if they do a 12 K, 1 to 1, whatever, they've got this whole rationale. Yeah. Go there. I'm intrigued to hear your answer. Yeah. So I think they realize they need to heat and cool a room.
Right. So they don't unfortunately they don't ramp down to one BTU. So over sizing at peak is probably not the problem. It's remember in manual J we size to 99% design temperatures. So we're under size 1% of the year. And that's what everybody's concerned about. So they always put a larger system in in order to accommodate that 1% of the year.
What they fail to know is what did they then just rule out on the other 98% of the year, right. How oversize are they? And they can't ramp down in a short cycles, and we kill compressors or high electric bills or what? All these problems that come up right. Including comfort problems. You put in an air conditioner, be comfortable and in a wet climate, or in a cold climate that has humidity, you have significant issues, so they know they need to put something in the room.
So therefore they think, well, I'll just put something that ramps down and it's a silver bullet and it's not. And we find this every time our industry comes out with something new or more variable. People think it's silver bullets. We went through this problem 20 something years ago when ECM Motors first came out.
They thought it was a silver bullet for bad ductwork, and then they started having control board and motor failures. Right. And they realized, oh, we do have to fix the ductwork. Still, the same thing happens with ductless systems like you do have to actually do a load calc and know what's going to happen under mild conditions, or you're not going to be able to sleep at night like I mentioned before, or you will get callbacks.
Well, if it's still under warranty. Otherwise I'll call somebody else. Totally. And even just going deeper into Ductless in particular. You know, it's an incredible option to have in your, your bag of, of solutions, but especially in places like New England with these small bedrooms, the smallest ductless head often can be way oversize for those small bedrooms, and it's not an appropriate application.
And you can really only see that if you're doing a load calculations. And so while you might be a ductless specialist, what's important to understand the other ducted options that are out there for you. So you can still address the challenges in the home when a ductless unit is not going to be appropriate.
Yeah, and I hate to say it more often than not that's the case. I used to work for a ductless manufacturer, and then we turned into a heat pump manufacturer when we started offering real ducted systems when I worked there. And that was the promise when I started. When I started, they didn't have ducted systems.
Oh, yeah. We're gonna have them, we're gonna have them. And I think I went five years before we saw the first one. I was frustrated, I couldn't sell Ductless the rest of my life. But yeah, that was always the the problem and the issue with applying products, right? We had application classes that specifically went into that problem, and I know for a fact every manufacturer has the same problem.
It's a ductless heat pump problem. It's not a Mitsubishi or a Samsung or a Fujitsu problem, right? So applying the product correctly based on the load calc is the right answer. And sometimes that's okay. I have to do Douglas because I don't have attic space or whatever it is. So I have to put a single zone system in so it can ramp down further.
And unfortunately, most homes, they don't want a condenser farm out back where everything's a single zone system. So because of that, now you have to combine those rooms in order to have a low end. That makes sense. Let's say in my house I have a lot of chopped up rooms. In my old Victorian, I couldn't do a ductless system, and the 3 or 4 bedrooms I have upstairs, right.
I'd have to combine those, use the little attic space I have in order to deliver that. Otherwise we'd have the same problem everybody else has. All right. So Chris, this is a great segue. We've already been talking about ductless versus ducted heat pumps. Let's get a bit more into duct design. And our old friend manual D, it seems like it of all of the standards out there.
I'd say most folks at least have heard of manual J. Hopefully they've also heard of manual S, but other folks have not really heard of manual D or not getting into manual D. Why is that? And what are the biggest like duct design mistakes? Most common ones that you see that really impact system performance?
Yeah, yeah I have a whole four hour seminar on this too. Right. So when I teach manual D, I teach diagnostics at the same time. I think that's the key because you have to know when you change something in a duct system how that impacts friction rate. So I think the first mistake a lot of contractors make is they think static pressure directly relates to friction rate, and they try to use in a duct calculator.
That's not the case. So if you notice that the top of your duck calculator, when you're setting that up, whether it's round or slide rule, it says friction rate per 100ft. So that's the standard that you then size your returns and supplies to. Right. So you have to know in order to get friction rate if you're available static pressure and the total equivalent length of the longest run.
So if you have a lot of things in the air path, it's going to decrease what's available. And you're gonna have to use bigger duct. If you use really bad duct fittings like bullhead tees or hard 90s with inside corners that are perpendicular that aren't rounded right, then you're going to end up with higher equivalent length values, and it's harder for the air to make those turns as more pressure less.
Therefore, you need bigger ducts. So I think the biggest issue we have is a lot of people are reusing existing ductwork, particularly ducts that were sized and laid out for heating that had air conditioning added to it in old New England housing stock. So the locations of the supplies and that's actually manual T not to get off topic, Eric, but knowing where the supply should go based on the throw and the spread is important.
And if they were size for heating, not the air conditioner that was added to the system, or you replaced a system with a heat pump, then you might not get the comfort in those rooms. It helps if there's a return in that room, but sometimes it's not feasible given the existing construction, right? So all of these things start to compound where you need to know when you replace a system if it's going to work with the new system.
Because when you do that you just changed pressure loss and you're putting in new fittings or it's your opportunity to put in new fittings, right. Or when you're laying out a new duct system, you have to understand in order to remove moisture, you have to get the air back across the coil. So therefore you need to put a return in most bedrooms in the hallway, not in the kitchen within ten feet of a combustion appliance.
Obviously that's a code requirement and not in a bathroom for obvious reasons, but you need to make sure the return that size of the hallway can handle the supplier of the bathroom. Right. And what we actually teach in the duct diagnostic stuff is a little bit of home performance. So I teach guys to use their dual input manometer that they usually use for static pressure measurements to measure the pressure differences across rooms when the system is running on high speed, because you should maintain a plus or minus five pascals across those rooms, and if you don't, then you need either balancing or you need return air in that room typically, so you don't want to depressurize or drastically.
You could create combustion appliance zone problems and things like that, and you don't want to put a positive pressure in a lot of rooms, because you can actually feel the air under poorly undercut doors blaring through because of that pressure difference. And there's a lot of ways you can address that, but that's your opportunity when you replace a system to fix it.
So that way you don't have comfort problems. You can't just look at the box and that's whether you're a salesperson or you're a service guy, or even when you're doing install, whatever the plan is if the guys walk through the entire process, right? By the way, the if you've never heard this, a lot of times I talk about this in person, you guys might get the first go round on a on a podcast here.
The order of the the manuals. It goes. Jay Z. Right. So if you grew up in the 90s, you probably know Jay Z. So it goes. Jay Z STD. So you'll never hear this. But that's the order of the manuals. You can't do manual D before you do Jay and S and no. The terminals are in order to get the ductwork there. Right. So I think that's also another thing.
Like 50% of the industry is not doing a room by room. Okay. So how could they possibly size the ductwork. They skip the whole process so you can't pick it up at the end. Now you can if you do a room by room load calc, you can verify those runs at the right size or the trunks are going to work and make sure the velocity is within range.
You can go through all that, but you have to do the manual j room by room load count in order to walk through that process. Yeah, totally. And this is such a it's a great point to remind folks again of this, like garbage in, garbage out problem. Manual J is the foundational input to all these other design steps.
And so if you are not if you don't do an aggressive, accurate manual J to start, and then you pass the garbage out of manual J into these other design steps. Man, like the wheels come off the train like you're for a world of hurt. So can I tell you what, J. Done. Ray, can I tell you a life story that I have from the Marine Corps on this?
Yes, yes. All right. So I usually I tell this usually during my manual J class. So if you've seen me in person, you've probably heard this story. If you haven't, because you might live outside of Massachusetts. Hopefully it's new for you. So in marine combat training, which is where we go after boot camp, everybody every Marine's a rifleman.
So we all go to combat training, right? So in combat training is where they teach you how to do land navigation. So they give you a compass, right? And they teach you how to use the compass. I already know how to use a compass. Give them where I grew up and who my family was. Right. So by the way, my grandfather was in the army.
My father was in the Navy. So it was one of those things. Right? So I tried to one up them when the Marines. So but in combat training they teach you how to use that compass that they taught me. Right. And they actually do it at night. So it's at Camp Geiger in North Carolina, and they do it at night. So you can't follow any sort of things in the sky.
And they have you go into the woods and in the woods there's glow in the dark when you open up these mailboxes with where the next azimuth is to shoot to then walk to the next mailbox. So it's a course. And the deal is when you get through the course, you and the buddy that's assigned, because you never go into the woods by yourself, especially in the Marines.
Right. So you and your buddy get to actually hit the rack, you get to go to sleep. And at this point you're very sleep deprived. So sleep is like ideal. So I'm convincing this guy that's with me. I know how to use this thing. Let's not wait. Everybody's going the same direction. Let's just walk into the woods.
And of course, the corporal or sergeant or whoever that was in charge. We were all privates at the time. I'll keep it clean for your podcast is where you're going. I said, well, going in the woods I know how to use. I know he's a compass. You don't need to show me. And we did a bunch of push ups and all the stuff that you have to do when you really mess up in the Marines.
And then he gave me this crazy life lesson that when I was 19, didn't I didn't care at the time. Right. But he said the time to have the map is before you enter the woods. So long time to get to this point. But manual J is your map for system design. You need the J before you do the rest of it, otherwise the map's never going to match where you're at, right?
So you have to have the map before you went to the woods. I love that story. That's an amazing, amazing analogy. If you have the map to California but you're actually standing in Poland. You're going to have some trouble. That's what. That's. That's where you do the manual, Jay. Totally sideways. You're going to be lost.
And the chance of you actually reaching your destination. Slim to none. Don't get me wrong, somebody's probably gotten there, but they probably didn't get there. The easiest or most profitable manner fits. I want to do the building inspector stuff because I just think that's the thing. Let's do it. Anything else on D or no?
Yeah, no, I think we're good. That was I love that story. That was so good. That's a good story. Thanks, guys. By the way, my dad is marine. All of my uncle's six out of the seven were Marines. When did you escape it, dad? How'd you get out of that? How'd you get out of it? Usually, it's one of those things. Like if your whole family's in, like, let's say you're guided that way.
Well, it was one of those things. They all had to go into the Marines to pay for college. And so it was like a thing that the next generation, like, didn't have to make that sacrifice to do. So my all the uncles and my dad were all like, like, just go, just go to college, you know? So it was just you just never know how it's going.
Intergenerational lessons don't necessarily mean do it the same way. Sometimes it's like do it a different way. And for our case, it was do it. Well that's what I would just talk about that with my wife this morning. We always try to make things better for our kids. Right. We have one daughter. She's 13. Charlotte.
She's actually working for me part time during the summer school and does my video editing on the weekends and stuff. That's just why they're performing better these days. So Cassie brought up my wife. She goes. Imagine if your parents picked you up Dunkin Donuts every morning like you do for Charlotte.
I was like, I couldn't. Are you kidding me? Like, we're trying to make it better for my for my kid. But maybe I took it a step too far. Like, of course, she doesn't have to go in the Marine Corps if she doesn't want to. We can afford college now. Like that was the plan, right? But, yeah, maybe Dunkin Donuts every morning is a problem.
I don't know, you can go too far with privilege for sure. Yeah, yeah. All right. I have no segue from that to building inspectors, but you train building inspectors. That's crazy. Right? Well, it seems a little bit like you're behind enemy lines. Like you're a bit of a double agent, Chris. So, like, just tell me, like, how did you get into it?
And then our audience is largely contractors. So like, what do contractors need to know about the mind of a building inspector or what they're asking for all that stuff. Yeah. So how it started, I when I was at Mitsubishi, I had a contractor that had this terrible issue with some systems getting a building inspection passed.
And I like to take the approach of like give everybody the benefit of the doubt. Like everybody's trying to do the right thing for the right reason until you actually talk it through with someone. Right? So we had this problem with the inspector in Massachusetts, and I decided, all right, I'm the regional sales manager.
I'm going to try to do the right thing for Mitsubishi and make sure, because if this contractor has this problem, I bet every contractor in that town is going to have that problem no matter what brand they're selling, right? So I actually scheduled, I found out when he was in the office and I scheduled for the contractor, salesperson and myself to go and meet them and figure out what was going wrong.
Right. And we sat down. And basically, I hate to say this because I'm sure the contractor is listening to this. The building inspector was right. Right. He was going through the load calculation and finding drastic deviance from what is reality at that home. So square footage of walls, square footage of windows.
There was a lot of rounding and it wasn't an aggressive load calc enough where it changed the size of the system. So he was failing the building permit, and this was probably the first time the contractor actually had to be held accountable or that code was being enforced for them. So a lot of contractors just refused to do work in that town.
And I convinced this particular one, hey, if you can do what he's looking for and do an aggressive load calc, not only is it the right thing to do for your customer, but you could charge whatever you want because you're not gonna have any competition in this town. You have a monopoly on that town. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Okay. And they actually developed a relationship with the code inspector. So when that happened, I thought, this is pretty easy stuff. Like, you just have to be willing to talk. You don't have to sue them. You don't have to sue the town. You don't have to, like, report them to the board. You just have to ask them and be genuinely interested in what the code is and what they're looking for.
Because codes change. Building inspectors are on certain things at certain times because something bad probably happened in their town and they were told to look for it, right? So if you just talk to them and talk to when you go to pull permit, ask the ladies behind the desk, hey, what are you looking for this time?
Is there anything that's changed? It's amazing how simple conversation opens people up and you're no longer combative with them. So that's how this started. So fortunately, he actually came to my class afterwards and learned a ton. That building inspector. Yeah, yeah. So now I always start my class with is there any building inspectors in the room?
So I learned my lesson the hard way because at one time there was, and I may have said something that wasn't the best at the time, so I'm a little straightforward and no nonsense. Whether it's videos or in person, right. It's just my personality. So I always open with that these days to make sure. So once he went to training, he realized we're actually supposed to be enforcing this stuff that no one's ever taught.
Because here in Massachusetts, we don't actually have a residential HVAC license. So therefore there's no board and the building inspectors are not required to get training, so there's no format for that. So they just decided at the local organization level. So we have like Southeast Metro, West Boston building inspectors or Metro West building officials.
There's groups and they get together. They typically have training every month. And I got to be a guest speaker. And the level that I walked into was scary. Like, okay, what's a manual J. Were they actually going to hand me? And I went, oh my God, like, this is going to be a rough go here. So I started teaching the basics of what to look for and what lines up.
And then we had conversations around what's acceptable, what percentage would be okay for you. Right? If you're within 5% of the the floor plan, the square footage. Is that reasonable? Right. Are you if you're within 10% or whatever it ends up being. And we started to have conversations around what's allowable.
And then I would translate that over to the contractors. Right. So we started getting more and more compliance, which means people were pulling more and more building permits and doing the right thing. Right. And I think at that point is when these building officials started recommending my training, when they would actually get a load calc that wasn't even close, or the contractor that knows what they're doing would get some ridiculous denial on their building permit, and they would say, hey, can you help me?
And that started into the consulting portion where I would make a connection with these building officials. So yeah, it's turned into an interesting business model in that a lot of HVAC contractors feel like they are the enemy. And they're not. They're definitely not. They don't want to be. It makes their job harder.
Granted, somebody might have a bad day. You don't want to do a code inspection on like a Friday afternoon. And come on, nobody wants to do a service call on a Friday afternoon. Why would somebody want to do a code inspection? So don't schedule them on those days. Right. Schedule them on the days. We're gonna make sense.
Make it easy for the building official to say yes. Right. Because it's accurate. And you provided all the information, and it's at the right time and day, right? That's the key. So yeah, but the number one question I get from HVAC contractors is like, what are you training them like don't tell them too much.
Really. It's the low amount of information I have to give them. This extremely useful is better for anybody that's doing system design. So even the 50%, the percentage of the 50% that are not doing it right. Should have a better experience with the building inspector because we train them on some basics.
Totally. And I know like often we. Yeah. Contractors view the building inspector as like a negative. You know, it's a it's a pain for their business but at a high level like it is actually really helping them. It's helping the industry because it's if the inspectors are doing their jobs, they're helping to kind of the contractors.
They're not being careful, they're not being thoughtful with their designs. They're not following basic protocols. They're not going to basically hurt the rest of the industry with the bad projects, bad outcomes for homeowners and everything else. So it's it's raising the bar to a place that, honestly, it's a minimum standard that they need to hit and making sure that that the good contractors are winning, which I think is awesome.
Yeah. What I mean, that should bring some value and the ability to charge for that service too. So I think there's always this thing coming back from contractors where it's too expensive to do load calculations or system design, or the amount of time it takes because of the building official and the inspections and all these different things.
Right. What do we have to remind them is, is that's not for you to pay for? The customer is paying for this service, and you should be charging for this service. And make sure you explain what you're doing. So that way when somebody is the low bidder and they're not doing any of that, the customer knows they're going to get ripped off, right?
Because they're not buying a designed system. So hopefully the 50% that are doing load calques are actually making more profit and growing their business. That's what we're looking for. And the code inspectors prefer that guy. They don't want a guy that they have to shut down because they didn't pull a permit.
They didn't provide a load calc. They I mean, that's a nightmare for them. They're not going around looking for that, unfortunately, if they were policing it. That's another story. They're relying on the industry doing the right thing, which we actually see in most other home services. Right. So plumbers pull permits.
Electricians pull permits. There's a structure and a license. Unfortunately, there's not that much structure or licensing in residential HVAC. There will be that stuff's coming, particularly at the scale and some safety concerns with new refrigerants and things like that, that out there, people are catching on to this sort of stuff.
So if you're ahead of that curve, you're going to be in a great position compared to the guy that's sticking his head in the sand and waiting until someone makes him do it. Chris, I have a story for you on this topic. She was over two years ago when we had software. It wasn't Acca certified. It kind of worked.
We were looking for any contractor who would use it. I just needed to get in someone's hands to like get feedback on it. So it's a contractor. Massachusetts. I'm actually curious if it's the same one you were talking about or not. Maybe we'll talk about it after we stop TV. I'm at there. I had just done a ride along for, like, half a day with one of their awesome comfort advisors, and we're back at the office and we were talking to the two owners, and your name came up, and I had just found your blog, and it was full of good information.
And one of the owners goes, duh, Chris effin moron. And I said, he's got great stuff. Like what? He goes, we're dealing with this building inspector in this town right now who's a Chris Morin disciple, and this building inspector is busting my chops on whatever he's like. I got a call. They were Mitsubishi dealer.
He's like, I gotta call Chris to find out what I need to do. And so that was my first, like, flavor of Chris more. And I'd found your blog, but like, I sort of learned it has this dynamic of the inspector versus contractor dynamic. I mean, fast forward two years, these guys are still avid users. They've grown their business 2 or 3 x.
They now do tons of business in that town because you did what you just said, which is you were like, here's all he's asking you to do, man. Like, and if you do it right, you're gonna fly through. And by the way, I know these couple of big companies no longer do work in this town because they can't get through the building inspector.
So it's been interesting to sort of live the arc you just talked about of the contractor inspector dynamic, just from from working with our customers. Yeah, that's just Massachusetts, right? I mean, you go into some of the other cities and states across the country, and it could be drastically different.
I think there's some states that do this really well, maybe not the permitting process. Right. But there's some states that hold a higher standard, required training and licensing. The only upside of not having this sort of licensing issue in Massachusetts and other states around is that this part of the business is really easy to scale, right?
We can bring people from outside the business, teach them how to do it right, and they can grow their business really fast. So as soon as there's a hurdle or a requirement, then the quality of work should go up. But it's not going to go up as fast, right? Because we have to get everybody up to that level. So there's good and bad here.
Don't get me wrong. But in that environment, there's someone with a technical training business would certainly do quite well. That would scale quickly. Yeah, that's not my intention, but it's turned into. So I just genuinely want to help no matter what their role in the industry is. So if we can get them all speaking the same language, it's better for everybody.
So don't don't view them as your enemy. And if you're a code inspector, the HVAC contractor is not your enemy either, right. The guys that are doing it right. Right. Make it easier for them. Don't arbitrarily wait the full amount of time just to be a jerk right before you do an inspection. That makes no sense just because you don't like doing it, or you're not quite sure when the time comes and you have to pass that that building permit, you're going to do the same thing you could have done 30 days ago.
Right? So for the ones that are providing all the information. It's accurate. Develop a rapport. And these contractors are going to continue to pull permits in your town and do work. You want the good guys doing work in that town. You don't want homeowners having a problem. That's your job as a building inspector.
All right. So we've covered a lot of ground. This has been fantastic. I want to try to kind of bring it all together. We've obviously talked about manual Jay. We've talked about code compliance manual D can you just connect the dots and talk about how all this technical expertise following these standards, how does that show up if you're doing it right?
How does that show up in a contractor's sales process in a really great way? Like how do you communicate the value of these steps in this process to homeowners? Yeah. So it's communication and building value, right. So I feel like the guys that used to do it the hard way, but they were still doing it in the past.
They would incorporate the homeowner to help them measure rooms, and they would get the conversation going around what they see. And so there's an old way of doing it, right. But you can see how they could build value by getting the customers buying and understanding what they were doing at that point.
You can do the same thing with technology today, and you can do it a lot faster, which will allow you to spend time talking about your company and not the brand or the calculation. Right. So I think if you're doing system design with the right tools now, you're able to build a larger value in what you're delivering, and that should show up in close rate and average ticket size.
Those should go up if your design, because what you're going to quickly find is customers that are not your customers, that you don't want to do the work for, that are looking for the lowest ticket, that don't want you in here more than 20 minutes or something to give you a price, right? And then you'll find the extreme side where they want all the information.
Maybe an engineer. No offense if anybody's an engineer listening, but that tends to be the nightmare customer for an HVAC contractor that doesn't do system design because they want all the details, right? So what you'll find is that's your best customer if you can get them to close. Right. But there's a large difference in between those two customers.
And if you're building the value, you're going to be able to sell these jobs at a higher profit, which will then be able to reinvest in your company to pay the best technicians and train the best installers. Right. So that way you have the net profit to do that. So you should see those three things go up. You should see close rate, average ticket and net profit rise.
If you're doing system design correctly in the sales process, that's about as compelling as it gets. Yeah, not to say you're an idiot if you don't do it right. So it's just a really compelling reason. If you want to grow your business, take the step right, get educated, learn how to do it effectively and and within the time that makes sense.
Like you can't spend six hours on a sales call trying to do a load calc because you're doing things longhand or something, like it's not going to help, you're going to. At a certain point, there's diminishing returns and you're going to start turning the customer off when it comes to those details. So you can build value to close.
That's the key. Love it. Awesome. All right. So Chris, our final question is always what resources would you recommend to contractors looking to build their business. Get better at technical design and go ahead and make a shameless plug because you've got a ton of great resources out there. Thanks, Ed.
Yeah. So very simply, if you want to learn something new for free today, you can go to my YouTube channel, right? HVAC Pro blog on YouTube. I got, I don't know, 250 videos on there. Most of them have to do with business or system design. There's some other stuff on there for quality installs and and some diagnosis stuff that's been around for a long time.
It's just me explaining in a slightly different way. Hopefully it's digestible. So that's the easiest method. Also take a look at Acca. So if you're not a member you can still access a lot of free training or pay a higher nonmember price to access those things. I'm fortunate to be aligned with Acca as an Epic instructor, so you may see some of my sessions.
They'll contract me out to do a virtual session or something like that on there. So those are the easiest methods, I think. Once you get past that step, if you need more individual support or more in-depth training, then there's a long list of stuff like you mentioned that I offer. So I have a four week virtual masterclass that actually in 2026 could be free to Massachusetts contractors.
So I was able to sign a contract with CSC. They're going to pay to train 100 contractors tuition free for this program. So reach out to me if you're in Massachusetts and you're interested. We have classes in February, April, October and December next year for that and then alternate months during the training season.
It's open to the public nationwide. So that particular class is $700. But it's a four week virtual masterclass where we walk through Jay-Z, S and D and I add a little bit of tea in the middle there, like I mentioned before. So every week we do a virtual Q&A for an hour. So it's almost like office hours before we release the content of the next manual.
So that'll get you really in-depth stuff. So if you're not using software yet, that class is perfect because it gets you all the details and the knowledge of what to put into the software, no matter which one you're using. Right? And then after that, if you let's say you already use software and you already know the details, you just want to know how to use it better or to increase your close rate or to build value better.
I do a lot of coaching, whether it's group coaching I have for anybody that's graduated my own programs, I have. I basically you can call a retainer. So there's a group coaching program where I'll provide up to an hour of of one on one. Then we have a group coaching our every month or if you want me just to be exclusive, to train your team or to do coaching three times a month.
I have a coaching program on my website as well, so you can find that at HVAC Pro Blog. Com a lot of other stuff out there. I won't waste everybody's time listing everything. I wrote a couple of books. There's some stuff, obviously, in the pipeline when it comes to training and content. I would love if you think the industry needs more training on one particular aspect.
Don't just say manual J, because obviously that could be a lot of different material. But if you say you think you could use specific training on what I need to look at for overhangs, for out external shading on a window, that's a perfect situation. I could create a video for that. So reach out to me. You can click contact Us.
Always get Ahold of me on my website, and I actually make 15 minutes available to anybody that wants to chat to see if I can help. If it's a free thing that I can help with, great. And if it's paid, I'll tell you. I'll tell you if there's something I can do to help your company. That is same through that. Contact us.
It's usually three days a week. I filled my calendar on 15 minute increments. So those are fast and furious days. That's why I have an assistant. Awesome. And we also have a link in the show notes to your free 15 point HVAC system design audit. Oh my gosh, I almost forgot. Thank you. Yeah, you got it. I released this a self audit for every aspect of system design and quality installation.
So you rate yourself on these 15 different points and then you'll fall into a category. And basically my team will reach out to see where you fall. And if there's something a resource that I have that could help you. So it ranges from like you should be teaching this all the way down to in bold red. We need to talk like you're creating more problems than you're solving.
So there's a bunch of different ranges in there, but it's free. So yeah, if you're listening you can click on that link. It'll auto email you over the, I don't know, 22 page PDF or so. and feel free to pass it around. I think what you'll find is the perspective from each sales person at your company might be slightly different, based on their knowledge and what they're doing.
You might want to get a good average for your company, not just one sales person. Awesome. Chris, thank you so much for joining us on the Heat Pump podcast. Oh, anytime, guys. I really appreciate the opportunity and it's always easy to talk to you guys. So thank you so much. It was great Chris. Thanks.
00:59:58.030 — 01:00:20.430
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