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38 minute read
Mitsubishi's Jonathan Pires shares field insights on the tools, training, and tactics that drive contractor success
Jonathan Pires covers some of the most challenging heat pump territory in the country. As Mitsubishi's Area Sales Manager for northern Massachusetts and New Hampshire, he works with 129 Diamond Contractors across a region where heat pumps have to prove themselves in sub-zero temperatures and against entrenched fossil fuel systems.
That gives him a unique vantage point on what separates thriving contractors from struggling ones. In our recent conversation, Jonathan shared hard-earned insights from the field about the tools, programs, and practices that successful contractors leverage — and the common mistakes that keep others stuck.
The Resources Most Contractors Miss
One of the biggest surprises in our conversation was learning about the extensive support programs that manufacturers like Mitsubishi offer — and how underutilized they are.
"Our program is completely free," Jonathan explains about Mitsubishi's Diamond Contractor Program. "If you're a diamond contractor and you're not utilizing any of the benefits within the program, and you're just offering a consumer a 12 and 12 warranty, I think you're doing your customer disservice, but you're also doing your business a disservice."
The program includes co-op marketing funding based on prior year sales, website reviews and marketing consultations, business training partnerships, discounted financing rates, and specialized technical support. Yet many contractors barely scratch the surface of what's available.
"A lot of contractors don't know that we offer it," Jonathan says about their marketing consultation service. "Mitsubishi puts a ton of money and resources into marketing nationally, regionally, locally. We want our dealers to do the same because ultimately that's going to help drive more brand awareness."
The Diamond Contractor Program has three tiers based on a scorecard that weighs volume, training completion, lead management, and marketing participation. The minimum volume threshold is just $25,000, meaning you don't need to be a million-dollar contractor to access these resources.
The takeaway: Most manufacturers offer extensive contractor support programs. If you're not actively using them, you're leaving money on the table.
Software Separates Winners from Losers
When Jonathan lists what separates successful contractors from the rest, software and automation top his list. He sees this gap most clearly in load calculation practices.
"New Hampshire's sometimes the Wild West," he says. "I teach these application classes and I always ask contractors, are they doing manual J or load calcs? And it's almost like a deer in headlights with some of these guys. But those guys who are using it are very successful."
The successful contractors use platforms for load calculations, price book software, and integrated financing.
Meanwhile, many contractors are still operating on QuickBooks or pen and paper. "That just doesn't cut it anymore," Jonathan observes.
He shared a compelling example of one contractor in northern New Hampshire who was spending 4-6 hours every weekend sizing and designing systems. After implementing proper sizing software and a price book system, he eliminated all that weekend work and could quote customers in their homes instead of having to go back to the office.
"We're able to eliminate about 4 to 6 hours of work per day on the weekends for him," Jonathan says. "So now he has his life back and until this day he thanks me."
The broader point: contractors who embrace software and automation for load calculations, pricing, and quoting consistently outperform those who don't. In an increasingly competitive market, these tools aren't luxuries — they're necessities.
The Customer Expectation Problem
Many contractor callbacks and complaints trace back to poor expectation setting, not equipment problems. Jonathan hears the same issues repeatedly: temperatures not maintained, humidity problems, noise concerns, and confusion about normal operation like defrost cycles.
"If you're not setting the expectation with that homeowner and after install, they have to call you and you’ve got to go out there for a nuisance service call, you're not making money," he explains.
The most common complaints include:
Run time concerns: Homeowners are often concerned that “this thing never shuts off.” What they don’t realize is that is the sign of a properly sized system running efficiently. Heat pumps are meant to run consistently, and that’s when they’re in the sweet spot of modulating efficiency. .
Noise concerns: Homeowners aren't prepared for the different sounds of heat pumps compared to basement furnaces. "They're used to that gas furnace down in the basement and all they hear is that big room when it turns on. But now you're putting these pieces of equipment in their livable spaces."
Setback confusion: Many homeowners try to use large temperature setbacks like they did with fossil fuel systems, not understanding that heat pumps work most efficiently at consistent temperatures.
The solution is proactive education during the sales process and detailed handoff procedures after installation. Successful contractors invest time upfront to prevent expensive callback visits later.
Design Fundamentals That Matter
Beyond load calculations, Jonathan emphasizes several design principles that separate good installations from great ones:
Stop the "like-for-like" mentality: "I have this great slide. It's three houses that look the exact same, just different colors. Homeowner A, 40,000 BTUs. What went in there for a gas furnace was an 80,000 BTU gas furnace. 20 years later, when they sell the house, what goes back in there is another 80. No one did the heat loss."
Use proper design software: For whole-home systems, Jonathan pushes contractors toward tools like Mitsubishi's Diamond System Builder rather than doing simple nominal matchups.
Consider air distribution: "One thing I say in my class is air does not bend without ductwork, so air is not going to come out of that head, bang a left, bang a right, go up, down, go through the hallway. So we need to place these units in the proper positions."
Don't default to ductless everywhere: Mitsubishi makes ducted air handlers, and the smart play is often combining ducted and ductless systems based on what each room needs.
The Sales Training Gap
While technical training is abundant in the HVAC industry, sales training can be less common — and it shows in how contractors interact with customers.
"We have a ton of technical resources and technical training, but it's the sales and marketing that these guys tend to lack in," Jonathan observes.
Two specific sales problems come up repeatedly:
Selling from your own wallet: Comfort advisors assume what's expensive to them will be expensive to homeowners, walking away from sales when customers might actually want the higher-end solution.
Proposing what they'd put in their own home: Jonathan encountered this personally when getting quotes for his own house. Despite asking specifically for a Mitsubishi heat pump system, one contractor insisted on quoting a gas furnace because "he wouldn't put a heat pump in his own home."
Successful contractors invest in sales training alongside technical training. They understand that installing equipment perfectly doesn't matter if you can't sell and design systems that customers actually want.
Business Model Insights
Jonathan sees clear patterns in which business models succeed. Contractors who focus primarily on heat pumps consistently outperform those trying to do everything.
The focused contractors can invest more deeply in training, maintain better inventory, and develop stronger expertise. They're not splitting attention between plumbing, electrical, and HVAC work.
Successful contractors also expand beyond just installation. They offer maintenance agreements, labor warranties, and ongoing service relationships that provide recurring revenue and customer peace of mind.
The Regional Reality
Working in New England gives Jonathan perspective on how climate affects contractor success. Heat pumps have to prove themselves in harsh conditions, which creates both challenges and opportunities.
"I get that question, especially on what we call ported style multi zones... temp is not maintained in cold climates," he says. The solution usually traces back to proper sizing and design rather than equipment limitations.
But contractors who master heat pump design in challenging climates often become the most successful because they develop deep expertise that transfers to all installations.
Getting Started
For contractors looking to level up their heat pump business, Jonathan's recommendations are clear:
Start with proper load calculations: Whether through software platforms or traditional methods, this is non-negotiable for successful heat pump installations.
Leverage manufacturer programs: Most offer extensive free training, marketing support, and business resources. Use them.
Invest in sales training: Technical skills matter, but you need to sell and design systems before you can install them.
Focus: Contractors who specialize in heat pumps consistently outperform generalists.
Set expectations: Invest time upfront educating customers about how heat pumps work differently from traditional systems.
The heat pump market continues growing rapidly, but success isn't automatic. The contractors who thrive are those who embrace proper tools, leverage available resources, and treat customer education as seriously as technical installation skills.
As Jonathan puts it: "Rome wasn't built in a day." Pick one area to improve, commit to doing it well, and build from there. The contractors who take this approach consistently separate themselves from the pack.
Jonathan Pires is an Area Sales Manager for Mitsubishi Electric covering northern Massachusetts and New Hampshire. You can connect with him on LinkedIn or through your local Mitsubishi distributor.
Timestamps:
[00:00] - Introduction
[04:11] - Background of Jonathan Pires
[08:26] - What an Area Sales Manager actually does day-to-day
[11:36] - Marketing support and overlooked Mitsubishi dealer resources
[17:16] - Overview of the Diamond Contractor Program and scorecard
[25:07] - Case study: reclaiming weekends through automation
[34:02] - Avoiding callbacks: setting proper expectations with homeowners
[39:00] - Ducted vs. ductless: when and how to use both
[41:39] - Best resources for contractors looking to upskill
Connect with Jonathan Pires:
Transcript
[00:00:00] Jonathan Pires: New Hampshire's, sometimes the Wild West. I teach these applications classes and I always ask contractors, are they doing manual J or load calcs? And it's almost like a deer in headlights with some of these guys and just trying to get the education out there. And on the importance of it. But those guys who are using it are very successful. So using a platform like an app or doing it the hard way and doing a maybe right, soft or cool calc. Another one is automating the business, right? We talked about manual J and using some sort of software, but like a price book software, so many dealers in New Hampshire, or even just contractors in general, they're still using QuickBooks or they're on pen and paper. That's just that doesn't cut it anymore.
[00:00:44] Ed Smith: Hi everyone. A quick plug before today's episode. First, thank you. We're starting to get some awesome referrals for our iOS engineer role. And we're seeing some really great candidates, but we still haven't found the perfect person. Hiring the wrong person is the most expensive mistake any company can make, so we're still asking for your help.
We are looking for a senior iOS engineer to join our mission of getting more heat pumps installed and perfectly sized for homeowners. This isn't just a coding job at amply, you'd be shaping product from day one. I am literally the only non-engineer at amply should be joining an engineering driven culture where we move fast, make decisions quickly, and skip the bureaucracy.
Because we're early stage, our engineers get to wear multiple hats, like having a healthy impact on product and design. You get to know our customers directly and figure out how to build exactly what they need. Plus our product's really taking off customers love it and keep asking for more so we know what we need to build next.
If you know an iOS engineer who wants to work on climate tech, that actually impacts the world, here's what you can do. The job spec is the first link in our show notes. It's also my pinned post on LinkedIn. Repost it, share it anywhere, but really take 30 seconds and think about your network. Your comfort advisor's younger sister, isn't she a software engineer?
Or true story. I did a ride along about six months ago with one of our earliest customers where the husband of the home we were at was a kick ass engineer. The right person is probably already connected to our community somehow. So thanks again for the referral so far. We appreciate it. Please keep 'em coming.
Alright, now let's dive into today's episode.
[00:00:44] Ed Smith: Hi and welcome to the Heat Pump podcast. I'm Ed Smith, co-founder of Amply Energy, and today my guest is Jonathan Pires. Jonathan, welcome.
[00:04:00] Jonathan Pires: Ed, thanks for having me.
[00:04:01] Ed Smith: Awesome. So Jonathan is an area sales manager with Mitsubishi here in the northeast, which is how I got to know Jonathan. Jonathan, we're going to dig into that. And your work with contractors quite a bit. But before we do, tell us about you. How did you end up in your role today with Mitsubishi?
[00:04:15] Jonathan Pires: Started off the going to school and graduated about seven years ago from Bridgewater State. Got my first real job out in the industry and thought that was good. And family friend of mine was reached out. They were opening up a rep firm to. They were going to represent anywhere from 2 to 4 different manufacturers in the HVAC world. They knew I wanted to get into sales and ultimately hired me to become inside sales and was going to graduate me into outside sales and that whole thing. And it happened a lot quicker than expected, right? So I was doing inside sales, I was doing outside sales, a little bit of marketing. Believe it or not, a little bit of R and AP accounts payable, accounts receivable. So I was running the show over there for a little bit. Opened up my eyes to the facets of the business. So I learned a lot over there. So I was there for about three years, and then I went on to another small family rep firm out of Western Massachusetts, doing a lot with controls, thermostats, indoor air quality. Got to get into some hydraulics, which was pressure reducing valves, mixing valves, zoning boards, a lot of stuff.
[00:05:15] Jonathan Pires: So we represented at that company anywhere between 10 to 12 different lines. So anything between furnaces, boilers, mini splits, pipe and fitting anything. So I was open to a lot of the industry as far as the products out there. So I was at that company for about three years, had a similar territory to what I have now, a little bit of northern Massachusetts and then New Hampshire as well. And then funny story is, I actually was at an industry event and Mitsubishi was showcasing there, and I actually met my boss at that event and we started talking. Mitsubishi has got an opening in the area. What's your background? We hit it off and the rest is history, which is crazy to think we're recording this in July. In August would be my two year anniversary in Mitsubishi. So it's one of those things where they say time goes by when you're having fun. I can actually truly say that it's been great. So that's my backstory here, and I'm still learning every day.
[00:06:08] Ed Smith: That's awesome. Can I ask, even though it was a long time ago, the family rep firm, I've been I've had a table at a distributor, and it's an area I just don't know much about. So I'm curious. I'm at a table and I've got a TV and I'm doing my thing. And then there's like a lull. I'll talk to who's got a table to my left or my right, and it'll be a guy who's I've been in business for 30 years. It's just me. I've got these lines. So basically, does an individual start a corporation and then get like geographic exclusivity on a series of lines, and then they just and they get commissioned based on how much they move, how much product they move.
[00:06:48] Jonathan Pires: Yeah. It's a mix you can have. There's two sides of it. There's. I was on both when I first got on the industry. I was a buy sell a manufactured rep. So we actually bought the product and then sold it directly to the contractor.
[00:06:58] Ed Smith: So you'd hold inventory.
[00:06:59] Jonathan Pires: Yep. We would hold inventory and then that whole thing. And then the other side of it is you're almost like that liaison. So you got the manufacturer, you got the manufacturer's rep, and then you have the distributor. So the distributor is buying from the manufacturer ultimately, and it's up to the manufacturer's rep to support the product in the field. So that's the I guess, difference of the two sides of manufacturer rep, if you will buy, sell and then commission based. So that company would get commission based off of whatever they sold in that territory that they're exclusive to.
[00:07:27] Ed Smith: Clear. Now what made you jump from where you were to Mitsubishi?
[00:07:33] Jonathan Pires: So for me it was that saying, what is it, Jack of all trades, master of none. That's where I was at. It was we had 10 to 12, maybe sometimes 14 different product lines to sell at a given time. And you can only focus so much so I got to learn a lot, but I wasn't necessarily the master of what I wanted to. So when I got approached by Mitsubishi and had the opportunity to join the team, it was a no brainer for me because now I just need to focus on one product and it's Mitsubishi, and now I can be the guru if you want to call it that.
[00:08:02] Ed Smith: Yeah, that resonates deeply. We've got ten core values at. One of them is focus is a superpower. It's just the ability to say no to certain things and then just do one thing really well is an under sung attribute. Like you can really do a lot with that. So I get that.
[00:08:22] Jonathan Pires: Oh yeah, I agree. I agree 100%. That's why I'm here.
[00:08:25] Ed Smith: Nice. All right. Awesome. We want to get into this more. All right. So tell me about the role of area sales manager. Because we started out like designing heat pump systems and selling them directly to homeowners. And then as I worked with subcontractors and started selling to contractors with our software, I started to the world of distributors and manufacturers started to become clearer. And I know there's. Like gray areas and different manufacturers handle a different ways. So at Mitsubishi, what's the role of an area sales manager. What are your responsibilities? What do you.
[00:08:57] Jonathan Pires: Do? Asm for short, you'll probably hear me refer to ASM, right? Area sales manager. Yeah, we wear a lot of hats throughout the time we're doing our role anywhere from training. We put a pretty big emphasis in training here at Mitsubishi, so training our distributor personnel. So that's going to be mostly counter guys, inside salespeople, outside salespeople. Because if they're comfortable with the product, they're going to ultimately sell it, which helps all of us. And we also obviously put a big emphasis in training the contractor base, our diamond contractors. So we work closely with our territory managers from distribution to reach out to their contractors and ultimately make sure that they're the best and the best, because the Mitsubishi Diamond contractor program isn't for everybody. You have to get nominated by your distributor. You're nominating distributors, what we call it. And ultimately, we want to make sure you're the best of the best because that is great for brand image. We don't want someone to go out there and hack up our equipment or anything like that, because it just leaves a black eye on the equipment and it was just an install error or a bad application. So we put a lot of emphasis on that training contractors. And it's not just technicians, right? Everyone thinks I say it all the time in my classes is we have a lot of if I wanted to learn how to install a mini split, I could watch a couple of YouTube videos. I can go to Mitsubishi's training facility and do that. But what we lack in our industry is a lot of sales and marketing, right? So if that's something a contractor is struggling with, they can lean on their area sales manager to help them with that.
[00:10:17] Jonathan Pires: So comfort advisor, training owners, sales training, whatever you may need. We like to think we ultimately like to think that the more touches we have on our contractor, the more comfortable they're going to be selling our product. And also it gives them that reassurance factor that someone's going to be there to answer the phone for Mitsubishi. And it's usually one of the areas sales manager in that area, which we're pretty much dealing with our contractor base every single day. So we want to grow and develop our diamond contractor base through marketing consults. We have three ladies, wonderful ladies in marketing in the northeast here from a contractor wants a marketing consult to dive through their website. Give any ideas on hey, I want to do yard signs. I want to do mailers. I have an idea if they want to pitch an idea to somebody who's a little more in that marketing realm instead of me, just a sales guy, they can get some expertise from our team and schedule up that time. So anything they really want, we're that's our day to day, right? Specialized training, making sure diamond contractors are maintaining all their training to pretty much get to whatever level that they want to be. Within our program, we have three tiers, right, standard, preferred and elite. And then each tier has a certain requirement of training. Also a bunch of other things in the mix of that volume, performance, all that good stuff. But it's our job as an area sales manager to team up with our territory managers to help and guide those contractors to where they want to be within our program.
[00:11:35] Ed Smith: That's incredibly expansive. As a revamp, you're doing a heck of a lot of stuff for contractors. I had no idea you guys would review a website and give them feedback on it.
[00:11:45] Jonathan Pires: Yeah, believe it or not, a lot of contractors don't know that. So when I'm out there on the road meeting contractors, that's the first thing I say is we at Mitsubishi, we put a ton of money and resources into marketing, right? Nationally, regionally, locally, whatever the case is, we want our dealers to do the same because ultimately that's going to help drive more brand awareness, and it's going to help drive leads to their websites and just leads in general. So that's why we put such a big emphasis in marketing. Right. So just I think that's a tool that's not utilized super well.
[00:12:12] Ed Smith: Yeah. Are there other tools that aren't utilized super well because I have the perception that I'm an entrepreneur too, right? And so it amply feels like there's a million fires burning at all times. And whatever fire I'm thinking about that I'm just like, I wish I had a resource to help me out with this. And so when I talk to our customers or potential customers, I get a similar vibe. We often bond over this. There's always a million fires burning. And as they say, some of these things like I know about resources distributors have. Mitsubishi has, other manufacturers have. And I'm like, there's resources out there. So how well do contractors take advantage of all this stuff? And what are some of the least utilized resources you guys have?
[00:12:57] Jonathan Pires: So I'll start off with what we offer. And one thing is, as a diamond contractor, our program is completely free. There's other programs out there that get to pay for or whatever the case may be, but if you're a diamond contractor and you're not utilizing any of the benefits within the program, and you're just offering a consumer a 12 and 12 warranty, I think you're doing your customer disservice, but you're also doing your business a disservice. There's so many perks and benefits and program features that contractors can use that are free, and that means that they don't have to pay for it. So if they don't have to pay for it, that's something that doesn't come out of their pocket, and they can ultimately route that money elsewhere in their business and help grow. But one of them is definitely co-op funding, right? So as a manufacturer, we partner up with our distributor partners and give out co-op. And typically that's based off prior year sales of the contractor. And they can go ahead and do whatever they please with anything to help grow their pipeline. So any marketing efforts, any TV commercials, ads, billboards, you name it, we will support. But I just think back to the saying I had earlier was, we have a ton of technical resources and technical training, but it's the sales and marketing that these guys tend to lack in.
[00:14:06] Jonathan Pires: And we want them to use these co-op funds with us so we can help their business out. So I think that's definitely one of the features that is underutilized. Another one is just some business support. A lot of people don't know that we offer it, but we partner up with third party companies that we can bring into the market. So I know editor you're probably familiar with obviously, Mike Caputo, right. Oh yeah. Good guy. Right. Dominate Ductless shout out to Mike, right? But we partner up with Mike and bring him in the territory every so often, maybe once or twice a year. And we bring up his class. Dominate. Douglas. It's a hit. People love it. People learn a lot. It's a two day pretty heavy class. So it's stuff like that we want to bring to the table, not just having these guys move our boxes, which is great because that's how we all ultimately get paid. But we want to do it together and do it sustainably, right? So if they can scale a business and hopefully they think about us because we're the ones who brought them to the table and got them the training that they needed and the proper resources that they needed for their business.
[00:15:02] Ed Smith: And so what is the amount of business a contractor needs to do with Mitsubishi to qualify as a diamond contractor?
[00:15:09] Jonathan Pires: Yeah. So obviously we have three tiers, like I said earlier. Ed. Right. But the biggest thing is I tell everybody you don't have to be $1 million contractor to be a diamond dealer. Diamond contractor. It's a mix of what we have on what we call is our diamond contractor scorecard. It's based off of a bunch of categories. So volume is obviously the biggest one where the minimum volume is 25 K and you get a certain amount of points based off of that bucket. Right? And as you grow off your sales, right, that point value then becomes more and more. And for example, if you get 25 points to 49 points or a standard dealer, 50 points to 74 gets you to preferred, and then anything over 75 points is an elite dealer. So yeah, it's a mix of obviously your performance, your training that you take both with an area sales manager and your online in person training and then the leads how you handle our leads. I mentioned earlier, we do a ton of marketing and we funnel a lot of leads to our diamond dealers. So all we ask of them is to accept a lead within 24 hours, and it's up to them to then contact the homeowner, whatever their process would be internally.
[00:16:15] Jonathan Pires: And then we just also ask them to update the status of that lead or what they did with it. So whether they lost it, they won it. The lead was bogus. Whatever the case is, we just want feedback on our end because we can actually pull reports and say, okay, Bob's HVAC said all these leads were bogus. Will now not spend money where we got those leads from. Say it was Facebook. We'll ship them off somewhere else to get more qualified leads for our dealers. So as long as you accept or decline and engage in the lead and let us know what you did, you get points on that. And then any marketing efforts that you do with us. So if you have Mitsubishi on your website, if you do any marketing programs, you all get points for that. And then any programs that you use within the diamond contractor program. So some of our partners are JB warranties, who does a labor warranty for us, synchrony financing, who offers financing at discounted rates. And then as you grow throughout the program, we actually buy down financing rates for dealers. It's a pretty lucrative program. And like I said, it's free, completely free of the dealer. So if you're not using it, you're definitely missing out.
[00:17:16] Ed Smith: You buy down financing rates for dealers. So like the dealer has to pay less of a cut to synchrony to offer the financing to the homeowner.
[00:17:25] Jonathan Pires: Exactly, exactly.
[00:17:27] Ed Smith: Okay. This is I'm learning a ton. All right. Now, I have been. I've been always trying to map the contract relationship with the distributor and the contract relationship with the manufacturer. And I get, on the surface, the manufacturers, customers, the distributors, customers, the contractor.
[00:17:45] Ed Smith: Seem to connect deeply with their manufacturer and have this identity as a diamond contractor. From your perspective, from where you sit. How do manufacturers and distributors interact? And when does a contractor look to one versus the other?
[00:17:59] Jonathan Pires: Yeah. So it goes back to what I said earlier a three way partnership in and out contractor, the distributor and the manufacturer. So the diamond contractor program isn't something Mitsubishi runs per se. And when I say Mitsubishi runs is you have to be nominated by your distributor. So the distributor has that relationship with the contract and they know if that's a good contractor, if he does good work, if he's in good standing. Right. All the good qualities that we're looking for a good diamond dealer. So we work closely with them in regards to prospecting new diamond contractors, making sure we're picking the right one. So everything typically runs through distribution. It's usually an area sales manager and then a territory manager from distribution working together, meeting the contract or meeting the prospect, going over the program, whatever the case may be. I hope that answered your question.
[00:18:47] Ed Smith: Yeah. No it did. And so if we put a tangible one on like a warranty issue comes up, contractor calls the distributor.
[00:18:54] Jonathan Pires: Yes. So every Mitsubishi distributor is required to have what we call as a DSG diamond service group. That's what they're part of. They're factory trained by our service team in the whole nine yards. And typically the contractor would reach out directly to the Diamond Service Group, or some distributors even have an inside sales parks department, warranty department, but everything you would pretty much run through distribution. Distribution would run it through our portal and our channel, and then we would go ahead and get it processed.
[00:19:23] Ed Smith: Okay, clear. So there's probably a heck of a lot more territory managers than area sales managers. Imagine there's one of you working with a whole lot of territory managers, working with even more contractors.
[00:19:33] Jonathan Pires: Yeah, like in my state of New Hampshire, I'd probably about 20 distributor territory managers that I deal with. And then I'm sure that's the same for my coworkers around the US, for sure.
[00:19:42] Ed Smith: How many contractors do you think you chat with over the course of a year?
[00:19:46] Jonathan Pires: Over the course of a year? So in the state, or at least the region I cover. So I cover the entire state of New Hampshire. But I also have a couple accounts right around that northern Massachusetts border by New Hampshire. Just because I live in a small town here called Dracut, which is right on the border here. So I take care of some guys that are in the in my backyard, the accounts that are assigned to me. I'm around 129 diamond dealers that I deal with, so I'm at least doing 129 touches a year, right? Because my goal in almost all of our area sales managers are touching at least once right to each of their contractors, and that doesn't even include prospecting. So you could do anywhere between 10 to 30 prospecting meetings throughout the year, plus seeing all your diamond contractors and stuff like that. So I would definitely say it's probably in the 150 to 200 if I had to guess between trade shows and applications, classes and all that stuff. So yeah, we get around.
[00:20:42] Ed Smith: Yeah, seriously, that's a good number. Especially if a ton of those are most of those are in person, right? Yep. So with that perspective, it's a pretty good survey of a whole bunch of different contractors. So what separates the most successful contractors from the rest of the pack from your perspective?
[00:21:01] Jonathan Pires: Yeah. So you're seeing it just as I am. Everybody's installing heat pumps and heat pumps are out there. It's the buzz. It's where it's at right now. And the companies that are being or I guess more successful are the ones that are offering more services or other services. Right? So if you're going to install a Mitsubishi piece of equipment, maybe you're offering a labor warranty. Maintenance agreements. Memberships. Right. Something to sustain your business may be in those slow times, but also giving the customer a little bit of a peace of mind. Another thing is they're using software. That's the biggest one is and I think you and I have definitely had this conversation is New Hampshire's sometimes the Wild, Wild West. I teach these applications classes and I always ask contractors, are they doing manual J or load calcs? And it's almost like a deer in headlights with some of these guys and just trying to get the education out there. And on the importance of it. But those guys who are using it are very successful. So using a platform like an app or doing it the hard way and doing maybe right, soft or cool calc. Another one is automating the business, right? We talked about manual J and using some sort of software, but like a price book software. Yeah. So many dealers, dealers in New Hampshire or even just contractors in general, they're still using QuickBooks or they're on pen and paper. That's just that doesn't cut it anymore. You talk about it in your presentation all the time. I've said in a bunch of yours. And you say the competition is being fiercer, and this is stuff that's going to kind of set them apart at the kitchen table and stuff like that. But besides price book integrating, financing, having some sort of marketing calendar, engagement with the Mitsubishi marketing team for some ideas. But contractors that we have the most engagement with are the ones that are taken off for sure.
[00:22:43] Ed Smith: Yeah, that's super well said. And yeah, the Price book piece is one that hits on all the time. And just it's shocking how often people don't know whether they're making money on a particular job or not.
[00:22:54] Jonathan Pires: I was talking to someone about this the other day. Sorry to interrupt you, but it's I think a part of it was not to go back to the horror of five years ago of Covid, but what happened was I think everybody was working from home. Business was good or no one knew where business was going. And then all of a sudden that summer, things were picking up because people had cash, people were working from home and the companies were making some serious money, and maybe some texts were like, hey, I can do this myself and make all this money. And they would go out in the field not know how to necessarily price jobs, and they're out there doing the job and not knowing if they're making money. That's the reason why. Or at least I would think that's the reason why some people go into business is to make money, provide for their family, and then ultimately either sell or pass it on to the next generation.
[00:23:38] Ed Smith: Totally. You listed off a bunch of stuff, right? Like software integrating labor warranties, maintenance agreements, financing, all this field service management system. It's like totally overwhelming. Our first podcast episode was with Matt Scott of Dave's World, and on that, he told the story of how he and his two partners started one day a week where they work on the business, not in the business, and they would pick one thing during that meeting to do that bought them back time. And so Eric and I did that podcast almost exactly a year ago with Matt, and we immediately implemented that at amply. And so one day a week, Eric, my business partner, and I just set one day aside and we just we do something that like, gets us back time. And it's stuff like the equivalent of setting up the price book and like that might take four weeks a day, a week for four weeks to just get us up because like, pretty beefy, but holy smokes, like, once you do it. So you listed a great set of stuff and it's just pick one, pick the one that you think is going to make your life better by the biggest margin, and then just run at it as hard as you can.
[00:24:47] Jonathan Pires: Rome wasn't built in a day.
[00:24:49] Ed Smith: Rome was not built in a day. Totally love it. Are you too young to know? Saved by the Bell and the Zach Morris timeout?
[00:24:55] Jonathan Pires: No, I do, I do. That's my show.
[00:24:57] Ed Smith: All right. Cool, cool. That was my Zach Morris time out and Zach Morris time in. All right Jonathan you mentioned software as like one of the key pieces. Can you give me an example of a contractor who implemented a piece of software to that had a big impact on their business?
[00:25:13] Jonathan Pires: Yeah, absolutely. So good. One here is in North country of New Hampshire. So north of if you're familiar with New Hampshire north of the lakes region had a contractor. Yes it is it gets cold. Had a contractor up there. A good good contractor of ours started noting noticing this repeat calling me on Saturdays, Sundays. And if I'm not doing anything, I'll answer the phone. But it was all help sizing and designing certain Mitsubishi applications and equipment that he's come across. And I noticed this has probably happened for 2 or 3 months. And finally, at my yearly meeting with him, I brought it up. I'm like, hey, you keep calling me on Saturday and Sunday. I don't mind, I'll answer it. It is what it is. It's part of my job. But I think you need to start automating some things within your business. You got to put a price tag to the hours that you're spending on the weekends. I'm like, how many hours do you spend? And tells me anywhere between 4 to 6 hours on Saturday and Sunday, I'm like, wow. And there's a smaller company. But that means he's not spending time with his family. He's not doing what he needs to do on the weekend or enjoy his weekend. So I told him, I said, hey, and this little plug for amplifier, I recommended the amp platform to him.
[00:26:22] Jonathan Pires: He went off and bought an iPad, did a little demo with you and got signed up ultimately. And that was step one, right? So now he can do manual J and not have to lean on A going back home and taking an hour to ride soft or something like that, or even leaning on a distributor where those guys are bogged down. All right. We're in busy season right now. And yeah, so he was able to take the step on that one. And I got him hooked up with one of our other partner sales builder pro. And then he was able to hit the ground running and build out a price book. And now he can actually size and quote in the home. So now he doesn't have to take that to his office. All of a sudden he's got 1015 phone calls come in and he forgets about the quote. And by the time he gets to the homeowner, it's a week later. And little does he know, during that week that job was already sold to his competition. So we're able to eliminate about 4 to 6 hours of work per day on the weekends for him. So now he has his life back and until his day he thanks me. So it's a good, uplifting experience for sure.
[00:27:15] Ed Smith: That's awesome. Thank you for the business and the plug. But yeah, happy to help. And we hear this sort of thing all the time. All right let's keep going. On insights from the field. What are you seeing out there for best practices or problematic things that just keep rearing their head out there a lot.
[00:27:37] Jonathan Pires: I could talk about this one forever, but obviously I said earlier, we put a big emphasis on training and I do a ton of applications trainings. So I always ask the question. Sometimes load calcs aren't even being considered, which is scary. I'm hearing a lot of rules of thumb that have maybe worked for people. They haven't gotten bit yet, so maybe that's why they're still using it. But in one of my classes I have this great slide. It's three houses that look the exact same, just different color. Homeowner 40,000 BTUs. What it went in there for a gas furnace was an 80,000 BTU gas furnace. 20 years later, when they sell the house, or 30 years later when they sell the house, what goes back in there is another 80. No one did the heat loss. No one. We're in this push pull business, which we're trying to hopefully get out of, like because I ran into it with my house, just upgraded to a Mitsubishi system here in my house, so it's awesome. But I've got some quotes from contractors coming in and they just want like for one, I'm asking for Mitsubishi and I'm asking for a heat pump. So a lot of that push pull business because they don't necessarily want to do the work, the manual, J or anything like that. A lot of it too is this goes back to we have a ton of technical training, but not enough sales training is comfort. Advisors are selling with their own money. That's another big one selling with their own wallet. They may think it's expensive, but it might not be expensive to the consumer. That's what they want.
[00:28:56] Ed Smith: Selling with their own wallet like they what would be expensive to them, they assume would be expensive to the homeowner, and that might not be the case.
[00:29:03] Jonathan Pires: So then they just walk away from that sale thinking the homeowners all about price when the homeowner just wanted something reliable and comfortable. And then another thing is comfort advisors proposing what they would put in their own home. That's one I ran into my house, right? So I wanted a Mitsubishi air handler system to use in my existing ductwork because it was pretty good ductwork. And the guy quotes me a gas furnace and a straight AC coil and an outdoor unit. It's not what I wanted. I asked for Mitsubishi, but he said he wouldn't put a heat pump in his own home. He would go. Natural gas. Fossil fuel. Yeah. So that is a whole nother sector. And it's time. Is the training that the education that he needs to have as far as heat pumps and how to size him and stuff like that, just because he wasn't comfortable with it. Right. But now I have it. I'm comfortable. I wish I could bring him back and say, hey, look at this. This is great. You should do this more often. But yeah, it's stuff like that. And then another thing I run into all the time is hearing from contractors. That homeowner just wants one unit to do the whole house or whole floor, right? One thing I say in my class is air does not bend without ductwork, so air is not going to come out of that head. Bang a left, bang a right. Go up, down, go through the hallway. So we need to place these units in the proper fashion in the home and not tell a homeowner that one's going to be enough, because that's just going to be complaint after complaint.
[00:30:20] Ed Smith: Do you see a difference between HVAC contractors who focus on HVAC broadly? And so heat pumps are one of many things they do. And HVAC contractors who are focused on heat pumps.
[00:30:31] Jonathan Pires: So do I see a difference?
[00:30:33] Ed Smith: The difference in their success rate or how they do selling and installing Mitsubishi units?
[00:30:41] Jonathan Pires: Yeah. So the ones that focus on HVAC definitely are more successful for sure. So obviously we have a mix of a track and then you got heating and plumbing and all that stuff. I think what the other companies there's back to your focus thing is they can't necessarily focus on one thing because they're doing plumbing, they're doing water heaters and all this stuff. Heat pumps is like the add on replacement market for them. Whereas the guys who are focusing on heat pumps on Mitsubishi. They obviously are a little more successful because that's what they do, right? Yeah. Typically our largest dealers that focus on heat pumps, they do heat pumps only. And then maybe we'll pick up something else, like a water heater as a supplement or something like that. They can focus a lot better for sure.
[00:31:22] Ed Smith: Yeah. Makes sense. All right. Based on where you sit, I imagine you're also hearing about the customer complaints, the warranty stuff that gets brought up. What are the most common issues that you hear that bubble up to you from what homeowners are saying once they have a system in?
[00:31:39] Jonathan Pires: Yeah a lot. So a lot of this happened, and we actually had to release what we call as an app, a note about it, just because so many different variations as far as our equipment and how it works compared to other things. But big one is temp is not maintaining in cold climates. I get that question, especially on what we call as ported style multi zones. It's the home. The condensers with the home runs to each head instead of like a branch box system. Especially those because guys aren't using a design software like a diamond system builder. So they're just doing nominal match ups. So they're saying 15 plus 15 is 30,000 BTUs. I should be getting 30,000 BTUs at it. That is not the case depending on the system. So I just always the first thing I asked if I get that complaint is what's your manual? Did you do a manual, Jay. Can you provide that to me. And typically I hear crickets. And then that's when they realize they messed up. Right. So that's one temp's not maintaining the other one's humidity is high, right? We all know the act of AC dehumidifier to an extent, but we Mitsubishi equipment or most equipment out there runs off a set point instead of percentage of humidity. Right? So all our control cares are all our indoor unit cares. Is that thermostat or that thermistor reads 72.
[00:32:52] Jonathan Pires: It doesn't care if it's 70% humidity, 80% humidity, 60% humidity. It doesn't care. Right. So we always get that. But that's because sometimes systems are oversize or most systems are oversize, so the equipment's not able to run long enough to wring out all that moisture in the air. So that's another complaint. Big complaint. We get on oversize pieces of equipment. The other one's noises. We got a nice little ten minute video on our website called Normal Operation because our equipment is different than their old system. So they're used to that gas furnace down in the basement or that oil furnace down in the basement. And all the here is that big whoop when it turns on, and that's all they hear. But now you're putting these pieces of equipment in their livable spaces, right? In their living room, in their bedrooms. So just let them know that you're going to hear some noises. You might hear some refrigerant swoosh noises. You might hear some expansion and contraction of plastic. It's normal. That's the issue or complaint we have. But it's not necessarily an issue on the equipment. It's just normal operation. But the consumer doesn't know it because they're not used to it. So the homeowner education after the fact of course needs to be there and better, but that's the noise factor of it. They're living in the space now.
[00:34:02] Ed Smith: A lot of that just sounds the manual J like sizing it, right. That's critical. But a bunch of that is setting homeowner expectations for you're getting a different piece of equipment like it runs differently. It's got things about it that are a heck of a lot better. But there's things about it that are different you should just be aware of.
[00:34:19] Jonathan Pires: Yep, that's the biggest thing. And I tell all my contractors is if you're not setting the expectation with that homeowner and after install, they have to call you and you got to go out there for a nuisance service call. You're not making money. You're going to roll that truck, spend time on gas, roll that employee out there. And it's not just the employee hourly wage. Right now we're talking hourly wage. Plus, you know, it all adds up. So that $50 an hour employee ends up being $120 an employee, just to go out there and tell a homeowner that noise is normal.
[00:34:48] Ed Smith: Plus the opportunity cost. What could that employee have been doing otherwise, which could be installing a new system and or selling a new system? That's just that's lost revenue, right?
[00:34:58] Jonathan Pires: Yeah. The biggest thing is that expectation. Next biggest one add to is defrost and homeowners they're feeling those vents. That gas furnace was installed and they're feeling the vents and it's great. It's hot. And then they get upgraded to a heat pump and the air is a little colder, but it's still heat in the space. And then all of a sudden it goes into defrost and goes into cooling mode. Homeowner freaks out. This thing is broken, right? But that's just part of the process and part of the heat pump technology that we need to have the consumer educated on.
[00:35:26] Ed Smith: And do you recommend it's the comfort advisor upon sale who's setting those expectations or the install team as they walk out the door saying, hey, here's your manual, here's X, Y, and Z. Here's how the remote works. Yeah, who should do that?
[00:35:41] Jonathan Pires: Some companies do it differently. Yeah. If it was up to me, it would be the install manager who wraps up the job at the end because ultimately the sales comfort advisor, he just wants to be in and out, push some jobs. If he has to sit there and train someone for an hour or two. That's a call that he can't go to and make some more money on. Where's the install manager? It's up to him to pretty much make sure that install runs as smooth as possible, and then close out documents, get to the homeowner and call it a day.
[00:36:08] Ed Smith: Awesome. All right. Anything else in this vein?
[00:36:11] Jonathan Pires: Yes. I got to put the plug here as large setbacks because I'm dealing this with my wife right now. So we just got Mitsubishi installed in the house, and she's so used to leaving for work in the morning. Hit the thermostat down 8 to 10 degrees. Yeah, because we're saving money, right? And I said no. So I had to explain the whole technology to her. And we're not doing setbacks anymore. So if obviously for the listeners here set and forget it like a crock pot, if you're going to step back, it's a couple of degrees, not eight, not ten, because the money that you're spending or the money that you're saving on that setback goes right out the door. Once you come home and put that back up to 70 or 72. So just be very aware of that.
[00:36:48] Ed Smith: And why is that? Like, why is that? What about the heat pump Means you should just set it and forget it.
[00:36:55] Jonathan Pires: So I always compare it to when you buy a new car or a truck. The first thing on the sticker is miles per gallon. So when do you typically get more miles per gallon in the city or on the highway? Highway. Highway. And it's because you're just cruising. Inverter technology. Our equipment. Right. We just want to cruise. We want to maintain. It's a lot more efficient for us to maintain a temperature than it is to crank up eight, ten degrees. Now you're going to have the compressor ramp up as hard as possible. Things are going to be really cranking out some wattage, and you're going to get an unexpected electricity bill, right? It's a lot more efficient for us to just coast along whatever temperature you're set to.
[00:37:28] Ed Smith: Great answer. Awesome.
[00:37:30] Jonathan Pires: Another thing is the complaint we get is this thing won't shut off. So I always tell people, you don't want this to shut off. You always get the homeowner who's looking at the fan, or just looking at the unit and just hoping this thing shuts off because they think they're just cranking up their electricity bill. But in reality, we use very minimal energy during that time. But we also need to sense temperature somewhere. And we're sensing it at the indoor head, especially if you're not using a control or anything. So that thing will run. And then sometimes, especially in smaller spaces. And Ed, you've probably this is a perfect thing. And your platform of amply is homeowners now want a microphone the hell out of their house. Right. They want to. The smallest indoor head anyone makes is A6K. So if you got a ten by ten bedroom, let's go in there A6K whether you like it or not. So now you start dealing with smaller rooms overheating and over cooling because that fan won't shut off. And you also have some refrigerant leakage into the indoor units whether they're calling or not. So if that fan is on, you'll get some radiation into the space. And especially if it's a smaller space, you'll feel it. We do have some bandaid fixes where you can add a control and cut a jumper and then stop the fan. It's stuff like that we don't necessarily want to do, because once you cut that jumper game over, you either have to have a good soldering, soldering iron or you got to buy a new board. So once you snip it. But we do have some fixes for that. All this is setting the expectation with the homeowner if they want a microphone on their house.
[00:38:59] Ed Smith: Totally. And you guys make ducted systems too.
[00:39:02] Jonathan Pires: Yeah, we're more than just the wall. We are now ducted air handlers vertical horizontal down flow. And we also have the pancake style low static and mid static.
[00:39:13] Ed Smith: Yeah. Which those I've seen that be like especially in New England Ductless on the first floor where you've got these sort of bigger spaces and then ducted that goes in the attic for the top floor we've got your smaller bedrooms is a great solution.
[00:39:25] Jonathan Pires: Very common. A lot of people tend to do like one larger single zone for the core of the house and then lean on a multi zone for the ancillary bedrooms and stuff like that.
[00:39:35] Ed Smith: So Jonathan, there's been a lot of talk about the refrigerant transition. Mitsubishi runs 454 B. So I guess from your perspective what's going on and what should contractors know No. And is relief in sight.
[00:39:49] Jonathan Pires: Yeah, I definitely think so. So obviously there's headlines everywhere about 454 B shortage and all that stuff. But ultimately I don't think it affects us as much as maybe others. We did release what we call is our pre charged letter. So if the contractors that are listening to this, if you haven't gotten a copy of it, reach out to your distributor or your DSG or your local area sales manager from Mitsubishi to get a copy of it, but most of our equipment is actually pre-charge a certain limits. So for example, our wall heads, the smaller units are pre charged to 25ft. The larger ones are 50 on our ducted application. So like our outdoor unit the smaller units are pre charged to 50 and the larger ones are 100. Right. So if you're running 100ft a line set in the home, I think 100ft would get to what you needed without needing refrigerant. But that's the name of the game on the equipment side. But as far as the shortage of refrigerant, there is another tank manufacturer that just went online. So hopefully this production of new tanks and the relief valves. Speeds up, and I'm hearing that we might be out of this clear at the end of this month, in July as we're recording this or early August. So relief is here. But when it comes to Mitsubishi, like I said, this is mid-July that we're recording this, so we have plenty of 410 inventory still throughout our distribution partners and even in our warehouses. So I don't think the shortage is definitely going to affect us as much, but sells much for ten to buy as much for ten as possible as you can get your hands on. And then when you make the switch into 454 B, I think the refrigerant shortage will be less of an issue because we'll have an abundance of it into the territory, hopefully.
[00:41:22] Ed Smith: Very helpful. All right, Jonathan, this has been awesome. Thank you for being our first manufacturer guest on here. That's not something we've done before, but it's been you and I. I've gotten to know each other pretty well over the last six months or so. So I'm glad to have you on here. Great advice. Our final question is always for contractors listening. What resources would you recommend for folks who just want to get better at the craft of installing heat pumps?
[00:41:49] Jonathan Pires: First of all, let me say thanks for having me. I've been listening to the podcast for a little bit, so it's nice to have my little time of fame on here. So thanks. But yeah. Resources. We got plenty of those here at Mitsubishi. So the consumer site is obviously Mitsubishi Comfort. Com that's where you can send all your consumers to find out rebate information white papers any case studies really anything Mitsubishi related. And then on the contractor base for those of you guys who are listening here, my link drive.com is going to be the resource still live and running over there. But we're slowly migrating into a new website called Mitsubishi Procom that's where all the new 454 be able equipment's housed and is living. And then slowly but surely everything will hop over to that. So my link drive isn't going away at least yet. So you will have two websites for product data and submittals and all that good stuff on that side. And then we also have the contractor portal. If you're not familiar with the Mitsubishi Contractor Portal. Reach out to your distributor. Get Ahold of your ASM. This is a portal that you have access to all free trainings that you need, and I think we have over 200 something trainings on this platform, anywhere from how to diagnose a bad compressor to refrigeration 101, and also reach out to your area sales manager because some of us have them broken out by departments within your company.
[00:43:06] Jonathan Pires: So if you're an admin, this is what we recommend taking. If you're a comfort advisor, this is what you should take all the way throughout the line. And then obviously look at your local distributors websites for any training opportunities that they may have in your area. And then I got to give another plug to another podcast that I listened to all the time, the Metis Tech Show podcast. So Paul Chavez and his team and our training department run that show. And there are over 100 something episodes now. And I got a lot of windshield time. So I'm obviously listening to the Heat Pump podcast and a little bit of the Metis tech show, so that's how I get my information. You guys are a lot smarter than me, so that's how I learn great recommendations.
[00:43:40] Ed Smith: I'm a big fan of the tech show as well. And Jonathan reached the end and you didn't give Rick a shout out.
[00:43:46] Jonathan Pires: I didn't, I didn't.
[00:43:50] Ed Smith: I'll do it for you. Hey, Rick. It's awesome. Jonathan. This is great, man. Thank you so much for taking the time to join the Heap on podcast.
[00:43:58] Jonathan Pires: Yeah, thanks for having me. This was great. This was great.
[00:44:01] Ed Smith: Awesome, dude. Talk soon.
[00:44:03] Jonathan Pires: Yeah, absolutely. Take care.
[00:44:07] Eric Fitz: Thanks for listening to the Heat pump podcast. It is a production of Amply Energy, and just a reminder that the opinions voiced were those of our guests or us, depending on who was talking. If you like what you've heard and haven't subscribed, please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. We'd love to hear from you, so feel free to reach out! You can reach us once again at hello@amply.energy thanks a lot.
